Wars and Crimes

There has been an ongoing conversation in comments about wars in the post-war period. Since 1945, very few major wars have ended in the sort of decisive, politically unambiguous victory that characterized World War II. The Falklands War and the Gulf War are among the clearest examples. Others haven’t been wars, they’ve been single operations or counter-insurgencies, or haven’t been victories as such, they’ve been withdrawals, ends to the hostilities.

Take the Korean War, for example. It was definitely a war but there was not a clear victor and North Korea and South Korea have been separated ever since.

An example that has been raised is the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. I would characterize it primarily as a counter-insurgency rather than a conventional interstate war. Whatever label one chooses, it did not end in a decisive victory; the Soviets eventually withdrew.

There were notable similarities among the Gulf War, the British-Argentine War, and World War II. The similarities include:

  • All involved what the ultimate victors deemed to be unacceptable territorial aggression, Germany’s invasion of Poland in 1939, Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990, and Argentina’s invasion of the Falkland Islands in 1982.
  • All involved naval, air, and ground forces.
  • All involved conventional militaries.
  • All involved alliances, e.g. the Allies in WWII, the UK, US, and France in the war against Argentina, and a broad coalition in the Gulf War.
  • All resulted in decisive victories.
  • The victor used overwhelming force against the defeated and had clearly enunciated goals.

I would be remiss in not mentioning a very different explanation of war and success which is that all wars involve some degree of what we are increasingly calling criminal behavior. Before the start of World War I there was an accord to which all parties were signatories, the forbade the use of chemical weapons. That was violated by both sides, increasingly so as the war wore one. In World War II the Allies treated the morale of the Axis nations as a legitimate target of war. That was the rationale for the firebombing of Dresden and the Tokyo air raids, which killed tens of thousands of civilians. General Curtis LeMay later observed that if the United States had lost the war, those responsible for the bombing campaign might well have been prosecuted as war criminals. Whether one agrees with that assessment or not, it illustrates how even the most successful and widely supported wars often involve actions whose legality and morality remain disputed decades later.

Even the “good wars” remain controversial. Critics argued that coalition bombing in Baghdad stretched the laws of war, while opponents of the sinking of the ARA Belgrano contended that it violated the spirit, if not the letter, of the declared exclusion zone. These are rationalized as mistakes.

The longer a conflict continues, the greater the probability that mistakes, misjudgments, or violations will occur. Don’t be surprised if, as the war against Iran wears on, we make more mistakes.

6 comments… add one
  • steve Link

    None of these really describe the war of attrition going on in Ukraine. If you want to refine your definition of war vs insurgencies or limited conflicts I think that you can justify that. However, your N is then very small and you cant derive anything like an Iron Law of War. What you can say is that if you limit things to the very few variables your guy did, then Russia likely wins. However, there are always variable we dont know about in war.

    Steve

  • Zachriel Link

    steve: However, your N is then very small and you cant derive anything like an Iron Law of War.

    The Soviets in Afghanistan, the Americans in Vietnam, the British in colonial America, kept invoking some version of the “Iron Law of War” as if it were a truism. The Iron Law of War is absolutely absolute—except when it isn’t.

  • Drew Link

    “The longer a conflict continues, the greater the probability that mistakes, misjudgments, or violations will occur. Don’t be surprised if, as the war against Iran wears on, we make more mistakes.”

    Well that’s for sure.

    Setting aside that I believe I am at odds with some, or most, on this blog for even going in…..I have been, and am, very critical of Trump’s “cease fire” etc. I fully understand his desire, some combination of concern for the general Iranian populace and a desire to keep the Gulf States in the fold. Perhaps a sop to China. But its simply not an actionable option. 50 years of Iranian behavior and China’s smile as they knife you in the back behavior tell us that.

    War has a very, very high bar, is brutish, and once the judgment is to engage it must be prosecuted with the goal of succeeding in its objectives as fast as possible. We were well on the way.

    As an observation, certain commentary on the war is simply erroneous: that Iran would not use hegemony over the Straights with missiles and a nuke to a degree unacceptable commercially, that it would not use a nuke on Israel or European targets, that these people are “lunatics” or “crazy” rather than a combination of true believers and ruthless, that one can in good faith negotiate or appease them, that the Iranian people will “rise up” if they don’t believe we will stay the course, and lastly, that any agreement is worth the paper its written on. It was right in front of him. But all Trump has accomplished recently is to give them some time to retrench while his political capital dissipates. (And based on commentary I saw just this AM it is clear not a damned thing has been accomplished on the key Straights or nuclear issues.)

    For political, strategic and humanitarian reasons Trump needs to bring this to a head. He has the capability, as messy as it would be. But we can give a new government the $300B rebuild fund and their oil revenue. But under no circumstances this cleric/IRGC crew.

  • steve Link

    The pause certainly works in the favor of Iran. Our own intelligence estimates show that our bombings weren’t as successful as portrayed and launch site, the few damaged, are being repaired. The large majority of missiles are intact and some of the damaged will be repaired. While Dave likes to strictly limit the definition of war if you broadly at post WW-2 conflicts, especially in Asia (How many of us watched the Princess Bride?) this shares traits with a lot of other conflicts. One of those has been the willingness and ability to wait out the larger country, especially when it’s the US. The Vietnamese waited until we were ready to leave. The Afghans/Taliban waited 20 years. In Iraq they waited nearly 10 years. The Russians lasted 9 years in Afghanistan.

    Before this started we knew from prior war/conflict efforts that airpower alone has not often been successful. We also knew that a ground invasion would be costly in lives, one of the reasons other US presidents avoided this. We also knew that the strait was vulnerable and there wasn’t a lot that could be done about it. (Longer term, pipelines may be an answer.)

    So now we need a deal. Iran could use one but why will they give up their leverage? We cant trust Iran? We unilaterally withdrew from the JCPOA and we attacked Iran in the middle of negotiations. How can they trust the US? It seems like a wicked problem and given the conditions named only a successful long term occupation of Iran seems likely to work (while they are occupied).

    As a sort of separate issue apparently Blair said some stuff about what the UK should do. He apparently thinks the US should help Iran. First, I dont see how that would change much. It wont open the strait. Second, why didnt the US consult the UK ahead of time if they really wanted help? The UK has been pretty steadfast for the US. When consulted ahead of time the supported the US to the tune of losing about 500 soldiers in Afghanistan and about 200 in Iraq. (As opposed to zero by Israel.) Secrecy? Come on. Iran didnt notice the carrier groups or read the multiple international new services reporting that we were moving ships, planes and troops into the area?

    Steve

  • Charlie Musick Link

    I would rate the Panama and Granada invasions as successful in terms of war. Both replaced governments, and they were stable after the invasion. Losses were minimal (although I lost a friend in the Panama invasion).

  • Drew Link

    “How can they trust the US?”

    Sometimes one doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry. The only thing they understand and respect is fearing us.

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