This Is Not the Recovery You Were Looking For

I have severely mixed feelings about Robert Barro’s most recent op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. On the one hand I think this description, pointing out how even taking the nature of the late recession into account growth during the recovery is lower than it should have been, is spot on:

The pattern of strong recoveries following sharp downturns is clear when one examines the history of economic disasters. The worst depressions relate to wartime destruction, and the subsequent peacetime periods typically exhibit strong growth. Examples include the high post-World War II growth rates in Japan, Germany and much of Western Europe.

The pattern applies also to non-war depressions, including the Great Depression of the 1930s. U.S. GDP growth from 1933 to 1940—starting from the trough of the Depression and ending before the economy was heavily influenced by World War II—was a remarkable 7% per year, despite the 1937-38 recession.

A better argument can be made that recoveries are typically sluggish following a real-estate crash and prolonged declines in housing prices, as the U.S. has recently experienced. In a study of international housing crises published May 2 by Global Economics Weekly, Jose Ursua examines long-term house-price data for 11 countries, including the U.S. His sample included 65 housing busts, defined as falls in average house prices by at least 15%. The bottom line is that housing crises do impede subsequent recoveries.

However, the average GDP growth rate during the U.S. recovery since 2009 remains nearly 2% per year lower than would be expected, according to the Ursua study. That is, after factoring in the estimated impact of the typical housing bust, Mr. Ursua found that the U.S. growth rate since 2009 should have averaged a little over 4%, rather than the 2.4% we’ve experienced.

And, with some reservations some of which Dr. Barro mentions in passing in his op-ed, I agree with his diagnosis:

What’s interfering with a real recovery? Perhaps the Obama administration should stop casting blame elsewhere and examine the policies it has implemented to ease the pain of recession and falling housing prices. (Some of those, to be fair, were initiated under the Bush administration.)

I agree with Dr. Barro that policy errors beginning during the Bush Administration and continuing in the Obama Administration have made the recovery much weaker than it might have been. I don’t think I agree with him on which policies were in error.

I disagree with him on his prescription, that we should roll back the “safety net” policies that have been put in place since the recession, e.g. repeated extensions of unemployment benefits. Let me explain why.

I think he’s probably right at the margins. I think there are probably people who have not taken jobs they might have because the jobs that were on offer paid less than they were used to making, that they were doing things they didn’t care to do, or that were in places to which they were unwilling or unable to relocate. However, I don’t think that the numbers of such people explain the very large number of long-term unemployed or its twin, the large increase in people who’ve gone on the Social Security Disability roster.

Consider, for example, the number of online “Help Wanted” postings for Orange County, California. That has, essentially, been flat since late in 2008. See also the precipitous decline in newspaper “Help Wanted” advertisements since 2006. Both contrast starkly with the national statistics on online “Help Wanted” postings which have grown considerably over the period.

I think that the picture that emerges is of a recession that continues in full force in some areas of the country with other areas in robust recovery or never having experienced a downturn. Or even a recession in some segments of populations in some areas. Getting someone who earned an income in the fourth or even fifth quintiles of income earners to accept a job in retail sales or flipping burgers won’t produce the recovery we need, either. And those individuals are unlikely to relocate to take such a job, either, particularly when their spouses have jobs that are supporting the family now.

So, consider incentives when evaluating policy initiatives? Definitely. But focus on the incentives for those who are starting or developing businesses. I believe that’s where the potential is.

13 comments… add one
  • sam Link

    ” But focus on the incentives for those who are starting or developing businesses. I believe that’s where the potential is.”

    But if there are no customers for the business’s products, what then? Or will these businesses subsist by taking in each other’s washing?

  • Characterizing the present situation as “no customers” is an exaggeration. That’s not our problem. Our problem is that growth isn’t fast enough to bring people back to work not that there are “no customers”.

  • steve Link

    “The pattern of strong recoveries following sharp downturns is clear when one examines the history of economic disasters. The worst depressions relate to wartime destruction”

    This is factually wrong, as Reinhart and Rogoff demonstrated. I guess that if you start off with a distorted view of history, you end with poor policy. As to unemployment, we know that people were willing to work 5 years ago when jobs were available. I dont think the work force has changed that much.

    Query- For those who advocate supply side initiatives, and I think some have real long term benefits, why is there focus on public debt, but a nearly complete acknowledgement of private debt? Why doesnt private debt matter? There seems to be an assumption that if you enable businesses to create new jobs, nice, that there will always be money available to buy the new products or services. Other than the new employees, who will be buying? Do we assume exports? In this world economy? (Ok, other than new products/services which would replace ones, especially from abroad).

    Steve

  • I can’t answer the question generally but in my case I’m concerned about both public and private debt but more about public debt due to deadweight loss. The model of growth that depends on ever-increasing government spending is flawed due to ever-increasing deadweight loss.

    I might add that I think that we are confusing emergency first aid with health maintenance. During the actual recession I can see good reasons for first aid. I would have preferred to see more balance between propping up insolvent banks and reducing private indebtedness than actually took place. I would also have liked to have seen all of the spending of the ARRA concentrated in the first year and most in the first six months. That would have necessarily meant more in the form of tax cuts and block grants to states and less to the absurdly wasteful “infrastructure spending” than took place. But we’re talking first aid.

    Now we’re talking about maintenance.

  • steve Link

    The Philly Fed chart suggests businesses are mostly worried about selling stuff.

    http://www.phil.frb.org/research-and-data/regional-economy/business-outlook-survey/2012/bos0512.cfm

    Steve

  • And nearly as many say “keeping operating costs down”. It’s not just one thing. There is no grand master stroke that will solve all of our problems. That’s folly.

  • Icepick Link

    I disagree with him on his prescription, that we should roll back the “safety net” policies that have been put in place since the recession, e.g. repeated extensions of unemployment benefits.

    Where’s he been? Those programs are already winding down, with hundreds of thousands of people in just the last few weeks losing their life-lines.

    Not to mention all the 99ers out here. I know many people who are 99ers at being 99ers – that is, they ran out of their 99 weeks of benefits over 99 weeks ago. How are UE benefits keeping those folks from taking work?

    Last week I was talking with some other out of work professionals – it’s the same story I tell and that Drew thinks is complete bullshit: They can’t even get the jobs at WalMart or McDonald’s. No one wants to hire anyone that has been out of work more than six months, period, end of story. People are so long past deperate that people that used to make $100,000 per anum are now willing to work part time asking “Would you like fries with that?” but they can’t even get those jobs. But I’m noticing a few people starting to relax a little bit, because they’ve passed the magic threshold, 65, and are getting some other government transfer payments.

    THAT’S our “recovery”.

  • This is factually wrong, as Reinhart and Rogoff demonstrated. I guess that if you start off with a distorted view of history, you end with poor policy.

    Rogoff and Reinhart looked at financial crises. They didn’t look at things like the impact of war and its effects on economic output. And economic growth from the end of the Great Depression till the implementation of NIRA was pretty robust. And Barro does point out that real estate based economic down turns do have a stronger negative impact than most other recessions.

    And keep in mind that Rogoff and Reinhart looked at financial crises and noted that often what happened was that public debt went up substantially and in advanced economies when the debt-to-GDP threshold crosses 90% then growth slows. During the Great Depression I don’t think we came anywhere near close to that threshold.

    So I’m not sure that Barro is necessarily wrong due to Rogoff & Reinhart’s research.

  • Drew Link

    “I think there are probably people who have not taken jobs they might have because the jobs that were on offer paid less than they were used to making, that they were doing things they didn’t care to do, or that were in places to which they were unwilling or unable to relocate. However, I don’t think that the numbers of such people explain the very large number of long-term unemployed or its twin, the large increase in people who’ve gone on the Social Security Disability roster.”

    Looks like I’m going to be on the opposite side of both Dave and Steve. I’m an employer. We see this phenomenon every day. Every single day. Cant move. Can’t do a lesser job. Boo-hoo.

    And as for those looking to get on disability……..don’t get me started…..it’s a life goal for more than anyone on the left wants to admit.

  • steve Link

    I see some of those people also Drew, they are always around. I just dont think there is a large increase in their number. (I hired 8 people this year. Does that make me a job creator now?)

    Steve V – I was responding mostly to the first part of the quote. Rand R did not look at war related depressions, so you are correct there. I think it pretty difficult to compare this crisis directly with the Great Depression. Unemployment and GDP dropped much further. There were no social safety nets. I think you can more broadly say that recoveries from financial crises are long, and associated with increases in public debt and long term unemployment.

    Steve

  • Drew, what you’re saying is that there are 8 million malingerers. I don’t believe it. I’d believe 1 million but not that all of the unemployed are malingerers.

  • steve,

    That goes for most of R&R’s research–i.e. no social safety net, etc. They looked at financial crises for the past 200 years. So for most of their sample period there was nothing like we have today.

    My point is that R&R’s conclusion are a bit more nuanced than:

    Financial crisis = very slow growth.

    It is more like,

    Public Debt > 90% |Financial crisis = very slow growth.

  • Icepick Link

    Drew, what you’re saying is that there are 8 million malingerers. I don’t believe it. I’d believe 1 million but not that all of the unemployed are malingerers.

    Drew shows that he has little grasp of what it is like to be LOOKING for a job. Usually when a professional starts looking for work they look for stuff in the range of what they were making before. Many people when they first lose their old jobs look for something comparable, even now. It takes a few months of getting kicked in the teeth to realize the extent of the devastation and adjust accordingly.

    I however knew the shit was hitting the fan when I started looking. I was willing to take some pretty substantial pay cuts. I got turned down for THOSE jobs specifically BECAUSE I was willing to take a pay cut. Potential employers were turning people down in such circumstances because they were convinced that employees taking such a hit to salary would leave at the first opportunity. Back in 2008 and 2009 potential employers would tell people this directly.

    So from the employers standpoint, if you weren’t willing to work for a pay cut they didn’t want you. And if you WERE willing to work for a pay cut, they didn’t want you. They were able (and still are able) to do this because of the excess slack in the labor markets.

    Drew is funny though. He expects everyone to be willing to move to North Dakota to live in a tent and make minimum wage while continuing to pay off their massively underwater house in Naples so he can reap all the benefits. All while crying the blues about how tough he has it dealing with all us poor malingering peasants. Boo-fucking-hoo.

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