I received a notification by email of an article in The Economist that I wish I could read but, alas, it’s inaccessible behind a paywall. The title of the article is “Western values are steadily diverging from the rest of the world’s”.
I have a two-part question about that statement. The first part is to wonder if that’s true? The second part is to wonder if the truer statement would be that “Western elites’ values are diverging from those of the entire world”? I.e. including many in the West.
Not the prettiest formatting, but here you go:
https://archive.is/7QFyO
Thank you, Andy.
After reading the article I’m not sure the results of the WVS mean what the organization (or the authors of the article) think they mean. How do they distinguish between changes in values and changes in the sophistication of people being interviewed by pollsters?
How do you know the pollsters arent lying? Maybe we should reject all polls? Anyway, its fine to question any poll but I think even if you think all the questions are great or dont like them you still have to ask if the results are plausible and fit with what we see. Look at the following.
“In Orthodox, Latin American and Islamic countries support for democracy also plummeted, as measured by the share of the population saying they thought it was good or fairly good to have a strong leader who does not have to bother with parliament or elections. In all three regions the share saying they thought this rose by between one-third and two-thirds between 1998 and 2022. That hardly bodes well for the future of democracy.”
That certainly fits well with what we se around the world. It does correlate pretty well with nations that emphasize traditional values and do not value individualism very much.
Steve
Also, use this for paywalls.
https://archive.ph
Steve
“The second part is to wonder if the truer statement would be that “Western elites’ values are diverging from those of the entire world”?”
I don’t care about paywalls, or need to read the polls or articles. I’m not comatose.
Western Elites believe they have all the answers, and should have all the power………..just ask them. Accordingly, THEY should be placed in charge. If the Average Joe thinks otherwise, they are labeled a “threat to democracy. “
My predisposition is to suspect there was a Golden Age of polling from about 1970 to 1990. The polling itself had become sophisticated enough to be good but those being polled had not become savvy to the ways of polls.
There is a simpler explanation for what has happened over the last, say, 50 years in “Orthodox, Latin American, and Islamic” countries and, indeed, what is going on the United States than the major swings in values they’re positing. The bandwagon effect. People give the “right” answer to questions regardless of what they actually believe to be true.
I tend to believe what people say less than I believe what they do. Consequently, just to take one example, I believe that most members of Congress and most presidents are some screwy combination of Hamiltonians and Wilsonians. An aggressive, imperialist foreign policy is being pursued either for profit or to spread “democratic values”. They don’t give a damn about what the American people want, what their constituents want, or what’s good for their districts, states, or the country.
Then you should believe this poll. People they are saying they want authoritarian government and they are voting them in and/or supporting them in those areas. If there is a bandwagon effect then it is not only affecting how they answer polls but also their actual behavior.
MAGA folks believe they have all the answers, and should have all the power………..just ask them. Accordingly, THEY should be placed in charge. If the Average Joe thinks otherwise, they are labeled as “trying to destroy the country “
Steve
I do think authoritarianism of all stripes is becoming more popular in most parts of the world. I think liberal values (by which I mean the values of the Enlightenment and the general principles that form the foundation of liberal democracy), are being challenged in many areas – not only directly but by those who essentially want to burn the village to save it.
Tribalism is the natural human condition, and I think it’s on the rise, made easier by technology. Tribalism begets authoritarianism. I don’t think it’s a crisis, but the trends are definitely cause for concern IMO.
Other than Gandhi, Mother Teresa, and Jesus, humans support whatever benefits them the most. It is how we are wired, but we are not totally selfish.
Value systems are complex, but they usually meet this criteria. We group together with people holding similar value systems. Also, some of our value system can be explained by the Nietzsche’s Will to Power or Rand’s Egoism, but not all.
I think value systems are not only evolving, but the previous supports are being eroded. Many of these supports are not ephemeral. They are real, and the more sudden they occur cause value systems to seemingly change suddenly.
I cannot stress enough that these changes are real or seem real. They include economic, environmental, financial, technological, and much, much more. Furthermore, these all interact and can dampen or enhance the realness of the changes.
This topic has been studied for well over two millennium, but the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians probably were pondering it as well.
Hey steve! Good buddy. Any other good predictions you have for us, not having been right in years??
https://news.gallup.com/poll/643334/ownership-ticks-fewer-nonowners-buy-one.aspx
How’s it going at Hertz, steve? How about Ford….. How about…………anywhere?
Drew- Polls are nice but we have actual sales numbers we can look at. In economics there is this thing called revealed preference.
https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/
Steve