I have written any number of times that I have little or no insight into the workings of President Trump’s mind. This story, reported on at Politico, is a case in point:
TURNBERRY, SCOTLAND— Air Force officers who have earned medals for their tours of combat theaters can pick up some more brass with a short pitstop in Southwest Scotland.
As part of its relationship with the Air Force, President Donald Trump’s Turnberry resort occasionally gifts high-ranking officers a version of its “Pride Pin,†a lapel pin featuring the property’s iconic lighthouse — an honor reserved for VIPs — upon their arrival, according a resort staffer familiar with the practice.
Rank-and-file members can expect a more basic welcome package in their rooms, featuring goodies like Scottish shortbread.
A five-day visit to Turnberry and the surrounding region revealed that the regular visits from Air Force crews on layovers from Prestwick Airport have become a major facet of the life of the resort. It also revealed that, rather than being restricted to single-night refueling stops, some visits last multiple nights, expanding the known dimensions of the relationship between the president’s luxury resort and the U.S. military.
That may or may not be a corrupt practice but it certainly presents the appearance of corruption. President Trump is benefiting financially from these stays.
I read a quote from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to the effect that that corruption is destroying American democracy, a statement with which I agree, but although I may agree with what she says I deny her right to say it. The entire Democratic leadership is incredibly corrupt, including Speaker Pelosi. Some is specific and some is institutional. For example, the relationship between Democrats and public employees’ unions is inherently corrupt. They are recycling taxpayer dollars into political constributions. How can they not see the corruption in that arrangement?
Perhaps Speaker Pelosi will be the Moses leading the United States to the Promised Land of a less corrupt politics and society. I have my doubts. If so, like the Biblical Moses, she may not be able to enter it.
Sorry, but you have to be a dimwit to believe that President is profiting from being president. If his businesses have increased profits, it would need to be offset by his losses from not running the companies.
More importantly, his businesses are supposed to be in a blind trust, and he is not allowed any decisions in how they are run. If he is, that is a problem.
I am tired of the “throw shit against the wall” tactic.
Politico failed to mention that the arrangement was negotiated and begun before Trump even ran, and that it has fuel savings aspects for the Air Force. I don’t know what the costs would be to unwind the arrangement, or the net cost or benefit to US taxpayers. I saw an estimate that this is a pittance issue.
You may argue appearances. I’d argue materiality. The Trump organization is not beholden or materially richer due to this. In comparison to general political standards this is a nothingburger, and simple political grandstanding. I think we have better uses for our time.
Every president has profited from being president. Same goes for cabinet officers, and Congress members. We just dont know how much Trump is profiting right now. His supporters have total trust in him so we have no idea how much he is benefitting as they shield him from any kind of meaningful investigations. I supported the investigations into the Clinton affairs. I would also support looking at Trump’s financials. I am sure his fan club here his correct and his business dealings are all perfectly honest.
It is clear that Trump is benefitting in particular from events in Turnberry. It seems unlikely that they would get a better fuel price there and the Politico piece I am linking says that it did cost more at Turnberry, so not sure which Politico piece Drew is citing. Also note that since Trump has become president a lot more crews stop there.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/06/air-force-trump-scottish-retreat-1484337
Is this important? I think so. It certainly looks bad. (Imagine if this place had been owned by the Clintons or any Dem politician.) One of the reasons people are skeptical about our government is that we just ignore obvious stuff like this. We all know there is a lot of corruption and bribery that never sees the light of day and that stuff needs more attention also, but we could start with the obvious.
Steve
At the very least it gives the appearance of corruption.
No, I do not believe that Trump is profiting from being president although he may be trying to limit his losses. If the deal were negotiated before he became president one of his surrogates should say that. Even then it presents the appearance of corruption for military layovers to be staying in a hotel owned by the president.
Having a billionaire with farflung business interests as president presents special challenges.
The only way President Trump can avoid the appearance of impropriety is if he is involved with the running his companies, and if he is involved with the running of his companies, that is a problem.
Frankly, I doubt it. The reason that presidential pensions were introduced was that after being president Grant fell into extreme poverty. My great-grandfather recounted that he had seen Grant selling firewood on a St. Louis street corner (repeated by my father).
Presidents who were, essentially, paupers becoming fabulously wealthy after being president is definitely a late 20th century phenomenon. Isn’t Bill Clinton the first of whom that can be said?
Similarly, I’m skeptical that Congressmen becoming wealthy while they were in office was a commonplace until after WWII. I’d need to see some evidence before I accepted that it was widespread.
No, what I think is that we presently have massive corruption in government at all levels and it’s getting worse. I think that’s one of the reasons that everything (building roads, building bridges, health care, education) is so much more expensive here than in other countries.
@steve
I am not sure what you mean by “investigates into the Clinton affairs”, but Whitewater occurred long before he began his presidential campaign. I am not ‘the brightest bulb’, but I am fairly certain that the Clintons had nothing to do with Vince Foster’s death. I also doubt that Hillary Clinton had a closet full of documents, but if she did, she would have shred them.
Agreeing to investigate the shit thrown against the wall by the Republicans is not bipartisan, fair, or honest. It is dimwitted, and I am not impressed.
The story was hatched by an MSNBC contributor and and Politico writer, and hyped by Rachel Maddow.
“Maddow was touting a Politico story by Natasha Bertrand, who is also an MSNBC contributor. Bertrand told Maddow “I think we at Politico were still trying to absorb it as we finished the story. I mean, it was probably one of the most remarkably brazen, you know, instances of this kind of self-dealing and grift that we have seen in the Trump era.”
Byron York of the Washington Examiner challenged this story on September 9, which was based on a single anecdote of one flight: “The only problem with the Politico story was that it was not the whole story. In fact, it omitted so much important information that it hardly qualified as a story at all.”
“The first thing to note is that a public database shows the Air Force signed a contract for refuelings at Prestwick in 2016, before the Trump administration entered office. In addition, Air Force planes made many stops at Prestwick before President Trump. According to information provided by Air Force officials, planes stopped at Prestwick 95 times in 2015, 145 times in 2016, 180 times in 2017, 257 times in 2018, and 259 times through August 2019.
In a statement, the Air Force stressed efficiency:
“Prestwicks 24-hour-a-day operations make it a more viable option for aircraft traveling to and from the U.S. Central Command Area of Responsibility compared to other military stopover locations that have imposed increasingly restrictive operating hours. Additionally, Air Mobility Command [AMC] issued a flight directive to mobility crews in June 2017 designed to increase efficiencies by standardizing routing locations, with Prestwick being among the top five locations recommended for reasons such as more favorable weather than nearby Shannon Airport, and less aircraft parking congestion than locations on the European continent that typically support AMC’s high priority airlift missions.â€
“The Air Force also said that Prestwick “has been contracted by DoD for fuel at standardized prices,” so there goes Maddow’s “markup” claims. “
York also suggested that the government could gain efficiencies from staying at Trump’s resort. A report from the State Department’s Inspector General Steve Linick found that for State Department personnel who accompanied the president on a trip, it was cheaper than Glasgow hotels:
“During the visit, Linick said, State rented three rooms at Turnberry for two nights. The total cost was $728. Citing invoices from the hotel, Linick said the room rate for the night was 95.06 pounds, or $121.40, per night. Linick said the State Department looked at other hotels, including the Blythswood Square Hotel in Glasgow, which charged 215 pounds per night; the Hilton Glasgow, which charged 249 pounds; the Hilton Glasgow Grosvenor at 229 pounds; the Grand Central Hotel in Glasgow at 185 pounds; and the Raddison Blu in Glasgow at 179 pounds per night. Other State Department employees detailed to the president’s trip stayed at some of those hotels.â€
“It appears that, at least on the president’s trip, Turnberry was a good deal. Nevertheless, the publicity surrounding the new story appears to have made the Air Force nervous.â€
In the era of Trump Derangement lies by omission in the media are of course rampant. So is innuendo rather than fact. Align yourselves with Rachel Maddow and Bertrand if you like. I can’t imagine a serious person doing so.
So now, who is up for a good Slimes sewage-worthy piece on Kavenaugh?
@Drew
Are you trying to make us believe that Trump did not use his time machine to go back and get those contracts? If so, please prove that he does not have a time machine, and please, do not bring up any physics bullshit.
Do you really think we are that dimwitted?
There is no “there” there or, as Jonathan Swift put it Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it.
Dammit all, Tasty. You caught me. OK, according to Mikey Reynolds (and he gets lots of up thumbs, so there) Trumps time machine was a gift from Putin and he keeps it in Area 51, to be used per Putin’s instructions. I’ll try to do better in the future. In the meantime, any thoughts on proper restitution?
I left a long comment about this last week at OTB.
Basically, there is nothing unusual or scandalous about the DoD contracting to use Prestwick. It makes sense for a whole lot of reasons that have nothing to do with Trump’s golf course and the fact that Trump’s golf course is nearby and that Trump’s organization had a separate agreement with the airport is irrelevant and were not considerations when the contract with the DoD was signed back in 2016.
The reported price differences in fuel do not take into account all relevant factors (ie. are not apples-to-apples) and regardless, the units and mission planners (who actually route the aircraft) pay a flat rate to the Defense Logistics Agency for fuel and aviation services out of their unit budgets – in other words, the people who actually order the aircrews to fly through Prestwick have no idea what the DLA is actually paying. So any allegations that air traffic is being funneled through Prestwick to benefit Trump simply don’t have a clue what they are talking about.
Separate from the aviation expenses are lodging and per diem for aircrews which comes out of a different budget. Aircrews use a system called DTS (defense travel system) to make lodging and any other travel arrangement they need. DTS is basically a government-run travel site like Orbitz, Expedia or Travelocity, except with a ton of government bureaucracy thrown in. That bureaucracy includes an authorization system and it also knows what each individual’s allowances and limitations are based on their travel orders.
According to reports, Trump’s Turnberry hotel is in the DTS system as an available lodging option along with several other choices. Travelers can pick that hotel to stay at in DTS if the system lets them, or they can pick another hotel.
Typically when traveling, DTS will give several options that people can choose from – not only for hotels, but also rental cars and commercial air travel. As long as it’s under the allowable cost limits, which are defined by regulations and an individual’s travel orders, they can select any available option that DTS gives them.
If there is a scandal here, it’s that a Trump-owned property is in the DTS system to begin with. But since it is in that system, it has to play by the DTS and DoD travel rules and regulations. Travel arrangements are made by individuals through the DTS system. There’s no way for higher-ups to order or otherwise preference Turnberry over other options. Members are encouraged to select the cheapest option available and may be required to provide a justification for not selecting the cheapest option – but most options are the same price because they usually all have the same set government rate. So if an aircrew member stayed at Turnberry it is because it was an available hotel in DTS, the price was below the allowed limit, and the individual chose to stay at that hotel.
From what I’ve read, there have been perhaps a few dozen stays at Turnberry this year at around $136 a night, so we’re not even talking about a rounding error in terms of impact. But the perception of corruption is still there even if that isn’t the reality. I’m not sure how to solve that problem.
“planes stopped at Prestwick 95 times in 2015, 145 times in 2016, 180 times in 2017, 257 times in 2018, and 259 times through August 2019.”
So it did increase when he ran for office and continued as POTUS. Believe it or not the military competes for money and almost tripling your number of stays at this hotel is probably more than coincidence. And in case no one noticed, Trump has been running for POTUS since at least 2012.
” A report from the State Department’s Inspector General Steve Linick found that for State Department personnel who accompanied the president on a trip, it was cheaper than Glasgow hotels:”
Note the change from Air Force to State? Air Force personnel wouldn’t stay in Glasgow. Also, this is from memory so could be incorrect, but I think it was an hour drive from Turnberry, so you need to include transportation costs.
“I am not sure what you mean by “investigates into the Clinton affairsâ€, but Whitewater occurred long before he began his presidential campaign. I am not ‘the brightest bulb’, but I am fairly certain that the Clintons had nothing to do with Vince Foster’s death.”
You do realize that your other pro-trumpets here believe the Clintons murdered a lot of people. I bet even Drew believes some of that. But conspiracy stuff aside, I thought it pretty reasonable to investigate the donations to their charity. If nothing else, it just looked bad and I think our high level officials should be held to a high standard. Instead everyone makes excuses for them, as long as they are on the same team.
Steve
steve,
“So it did increase when he ran for office and continued as POTUS. Believe it or not the military competes for money and almost tripling your number of stays at this hotel is probably more than coincidence.”
We don’t know the actual number of Trump hotel stays – the numbers you quoted from Drew are the number of plane stops – not every plane stop will result in an overnight stay and not every overnight stay will be at Turnberry and difference aircraft have a different crew complements. The Dod could compile the actual number of stays at Turnberry pretty easily. Maybe Congress could ask them.
And again, flights into and through Prestwick do not inherently benefit Trump – they only benefit Trump if the crews stay overnight in Trump’s hotel. And it’s individuals who decide which hotel to stay at through DTS. So the notion that the increased number of flights through Prestwick signal corruption is just plain wrong. DoD contracted with Preswick because they needed another stopover point besides Shannon and it’s no surprise that more flights go through there now. Trump’s hotel could burn down tomorrow and it wouldn’t change how much we use it.
@steve
And in case no one noticed, Trump has been running for POTUS since at least 2012.
The time machine is a better angle, and since the woke crowd cannot distinguish magic from science, I expect it will be the next MSNBC breaking news – “TRUMP HAS SECRET TIME MACHINE”.
… Clintons …
I do not care what shit pro-trumpers or @Drew believes. I want probable cause not possible cause. I believe in the whole “innocent until proven guilty”, and I believe that nobody should be accused without some proof.
The Clintons might be sleazy, but being sleazy is not a crime. In any case, we have a justice system to handle crimes.
On the mishandling of classified emails, there is probable cause.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-donald-trump-catapults-place-2012-gop-field/story?id=13318814
“The Dod could compile the actual number of stays at Turnberry pretty easily. Maybe Congress could ask them.”
Good idea. My best guess? They will drag their feet on releasing those numbers.
“DoD contracted with Preswick because they needed another stopover point besides Shannon and it’s no surprise that more flights go through there now. Trump’s hotel could burn down tomorrow and it wouldn’t change how much we use it.”
Then this is where we will probably end up disagreeing a bit. I think that flag officers, a large percentage of them, are very political animals. I can easily see some 2 star deciding that commander-in chief might appreciate having more business sent his way. Might want to be a 3 star some day, or might simply want more support when it comes time to make an ask about the next version of the F-35. (I saw, I suspect you must have seen, some senior officers putting their needs in front of their troops needs.) Note that this would not necessarily mean that Trump was guilty of anything. Maybe those senior officers were the ones giving guidance about what hotel to choose. Must have been something that induced them to travel 40 minutes away rather than stay close to the airport.
Steve
@steve
If I did not know better, I would think you are trying to get President Trump re-elected. What seems reasonable to the woke sounds batshit crazy to normal people.
“Then this is where we will probably end up disagreeing a bit. I think that flag officers, a large percentage of them, are very political animals. I can easily see some 2 star deciding that commander-in chief might appreciate having more business sent his way.”
How?
Again, flights into Prestwick do not benefit Trump in any way unless crews overnight in his hotel. The travel system is run through DTS, not subject to the whims of politically-motivated flag officers. I’ve described how the system works – individuals, not flag officers – choose their own lodging arrangements through DTS. Flag officers are not calling aircraft crews and telling them they should use Trump’s hotel. The whole idea is just ridiculous.
There is zero evidence that anything you’re implying is actually occurring. It is frankly wild and ignorant speculation absent some actual evidence, of which there is none.
Someone made the decision to increase flights to Prestwick. Unless DTS is run by some AI, someone made that decision. Who? Why?
“absent some actual evidence”
Which we won’t have if we just ignore this. Note that I am not calling for indictments or impeachment here. I am not even claiming that Trump is at fault. Let’s find out how many personnel are staying at this hotel and what those numbers have been over time. We were given room costs, but not meals and travel and we know the Trump hotel is much further away than the airport hotels. Maybe taxis and rental cars are free in Scotland, I was only there once so what do I know. What we dont know is if, as we are being lead to believe, that we save money by having people stay at the Trump facility. All we need is an hour or two of search time on government computers. If we find out it is really cheaper, that there has been minimal change in the number of people staying at Turnberry, we stop.
Steve
You’re getting desperate, Steve. You and Reynolds should spend some quality time together. May I humbly request the tin foil hat concession?
Here’s your big fat nothingburger Steve:
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/09/13/air-force-6-percent-of-airmens-glasgow-area-stays-were-at-trump-resort/
Why didnt you just link to that to begin with? What I said was “. If we find out it is really cheaper, that there has been minimal change in the number of people staying at Turnberry, we stop.”
What is sad here is that people like Drew are so desperate to defend their team that they accept anything done by anyone they like without question. No, I dont like the other approach where every claim of bad behavior results in calls for indictments or 8 investigations on the same incident. Asking for some very minimal investigation and numbers is the correct first approach.
Steve
“Why didnt you just link to that to begin with? “
Because I didn’t find it until last night when I started searching for it.
@steve
What I said was “. If we find out it is really cheaper, that there has been minimal change in the number of people staying at Turnberry, we stop.â€
If we find out that @steve is not a wife beater, we stop.
If we find out that @steve is not a child molester, we stop.
If we find out the Clintons did not murder anybody, we stop.
If we find out Barack Obama is an American citizen, we stop.
If we find out @steve is not batshit crazy, we stop.
This is a game you will lose, but I am willing to play.
If we have any evidence of steve beating wife (like she keeps showing up at church with black eyes) we should do an initial investigation.
If there is suggestive evidence that steve is child molesting, we should look.
There was never even any suggestive evidence the Clintons murdered anyone.
But let’s plan the game your way. Trump withdraws all sanctions on Iran and announces plans for a new Trump Plaza in Tehran. He’s just a great businessman.
Trump announces plans to build a grand hotel complex in N Korea and announces N Korea gets to keep its nukes because we can trust them. Just a great businessman.
Joe Biden’s son announces many billion dollars deal with China 2 days after Joe wins nomination. Just a great businessman.
Is there anything you are not willing to overlook? How do we magically have enough evidence to convict before we even start looking? You suggested there was enough evidence to look at Clinton for mishandling of secure emails, but that only existed because someone looked at the emails to begin with.
Steve