This post is in reaction to a trope being repeated at OTB. Here’s an example of its use:
James, do you really think that the serious problems currently ailing the country, along with the significant challenges looming ahead, can be met by a moderate Democrat? At this stage, the very idea strikes me as (I’ll be tactful) wishful thinking. Today’s Republican party and everything it stands for must be smashed, and it’s simply not in the nature of a centrist to undertake such action.
Half of all Democrats are either moderates or conservatives and two-thirds of all black voters are either moderates or conservatives. The reason it looks different is largely money.
To get the big bucks necessary to run a campaign the way modern campaigns are run you’ve got to go after major donors and to be willing to donate big bucks you’ve got to be highly motivated. The most extreme whether progressives or conservatives are those highly motivated donors and, consequently, figure larger in national politics than might otherwise be the case.
That, too, is one of the reasons that the Congress accomplishes so little. The extremes of the two parties can’t do much other than scream at each other and elected representatives, for the reason mentioned above, are more extreme than their constituents. The moderates who used to form the core of a governing coalition have been weeded out of both parties.
The risk of running a very leftwing candidate for Democrats is, as I have been saying for some time, not that blacks will vote Republican (although that may happen as well) but that they just won’t vote at all. It’s also why Cory Booker is a better VP prospect than Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris just isn’t that popular among black voters.
I’ve mentioned it before. In the Chicago mayoral primaries blacks voted in the largest numbers for the most conservative candidate running.
“Today’s Republican party and everything it stands for must be smashed”
I think they should put that in the party platform, all or nothing.
Hmmm. I’m not sure that whether the crazy left is 25% or 50% of all Democrats will matter. The fact is that they control media, so that’s the image and message going out. Health care for illegals, Green New Deals, gun confiscation etc.
In addition, of the leading candidates: Biden, Warren or Sanders, or the leading VP candidates, who I believe are Booker, Harris, and a player to be named later, only Biden doesn’t actually believe the looney left stuff. And he’s the only one who has a chance to do the moonwalk from this craziness. Biden or bust.
The main thrust over there in comments is that the Republican Party is dead, because its all religious nuts, confined to wheelchairs or stupid hillbilly’s. And they believe their own straw men arguments.
It looks like it could come down to the issue of whether their disappointment in Biden discovering sanity is trumped (heh) by Trump hatred. The excerpt you chose reflects their stridency and group think. I’m not so sure they don’t sit on their hands.
I must say, its pure comedy gold to put forth the notion that the Republican Party is doomed when the public and actual face of the Democrats is heavily populated with Beto’s, AOC’s, Bernie’s and Schiff’s, and their bizarre policies. ………..which I think I’ll go point out just to see how many down thumbs I can get.
The reality is more disquieting than strong partisans of either party care to admit. The number of people who are not comfortable with either party is larger than ever before and they feel they have no political home. Some will vote Democratic, some will vote Republican, Green, or Libertarian. And some will not show up at all. I think party loyalty is waning not waxing.
I find the notion of a huge groundswell of highly progressive voters in 2020 amusing but that seems to form the foundation of their arguments.
As I have said before I think that Biden-Booker is the strongest ticket of those running now.
Right on que.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/461866-democratic-senators-quietly-hope-biden-wins-over-rivals
I also think that in the coming weeks you’ll see the combine of the media and the DNC doing their darnedest to undermine the candidacies of Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang. Neither of them is a member of The Team.
I think you are largely correct here, but the problem is that the GOP elected a guy to smash and stick it to the liberals so they think it is a path to success for them also. For reasons you have pointed out I dont expect that to work so well for Democrats, even if it was a winning strategy for Republicans.
Steve
“Some will vote Democratic, some will vote Republican, Green, or Libertarian. And some will not show up at all.”
Certainly. Without regard to the personal or policy merits, just the politics, Trump supporters are, I think, less divided. The never Trumpers are motivated more by loss of status and influence than policy. Just look at the formerly supported positions they have abandoned because “not invented here.” But they largely stayed home last time. Its baked in the cake.
A vote for Trump took a bigger leap of faith last time than it will this time. Remember the dire predictions?? The world has not ended. The economy continues to lumber along, and more importantly unemployment rates are low. And all but the crazies see through the “Trump is a KKK Wizard,” “Trump is a traitorous Putin stooge” nonsense.
steve, I recognize that you and I differ on this, but I think it is going to prove impossible for the Democrats to disentangle themselves from the wackiest policy positions they advocated before the primaries for the general election. The videos are all out there. They will b e played non-stop.
Why is Andrew Yang not a member of the “team” — he has not run for office before?
Note there was a poll this week where Yang outpolled Harris in California — and I don’t think he’s hit his ceiling in that state yet.
That’s right. He’s an outsider.
From the point of view of the insiders, the worst case scenario is not Trump’s being re-elected. The worst case scenario is a Democrat who is not part of the regular party organization being elected. That’s one of the reasons the DNC worked so hard against Bernie Sanders in 2016.
“Democrat who is not part of the regular party organization being elected”
suicidal.
I am not sure money is the problem. People spending time in bubbles either geographic (big cities and college towns) or electronic (traditional media and internet). Twitter in particular is dominated by extremists. Money is not much of factor on twitter.
When I see people treating AOC as a savior and role model I see wishful people living in bubbles. To be successful the dems needs more Joe Manchins in congress not more AOCs.
Dave, they are already backtracking on the worst stuff, but you dont need someone with whacky policy positions to say awful things about conservatives. If Biden, just to choose a candidate, maintained fairly sensible policy but started saying awful, untrue things about conservatives, ala Trump, there is a part of the party that would eat that up and he would start to have stadiums packed when he campaigned.
Steve
I don’t think you’re following me. They can run but they can’t hide.
I’m less concerned about what they say about Republicans than what they say about themselves.
Does that matter anymore? Trump kind of suggests that it doesn’t matter what you say on tape. You just deny it or skip over it. Voters dont hold you accountable as long as you are on their team and make them feel good about hating the other side. Plus, in American politics 6 months ago is the distant past.
Steve
Your delusional projection never ceases to amuse, steve.
Trump has a simple formula:
– a couple of core issues he truly believes in: economic security, stay out of dumb wars or treaties (America first), honor the average Joe’s. Green New Deals, taxes and regulation, identity politics, castigating the police and managed trade are not consistent with that. Hammer that home constantly.
– Poor me/ Please don’t throw me in the briar patch. He’s a hyperbolic showman/ salesman/promoter. Always have a foil, keep the critics lobbing petty stuff at him. Just deliver on your promises. He’s therefore in the news, controlling narrative, rallying the base and proving critics wrong. He sees his critics for what they are: self important but infantile players stuck in their own belief systems. He doesn’t back down or play by their rules and goes right over the top of them, complaining the whole way. And sticking it straight up their….. They hate him for that. He grins. They will self destruct.
His mistakes have largely been ego related, believing he could just pull organizational levers but failing to wipe out holdovers. Some might say he believed he could just bully his way through. He didn’t have a bench to draw on. But he’s grown on the job and become more savvy wrt Washington ways. A driving force but a relatively poor administrator, he’s more in stride now. Eg. I’m sure he can’t stand McConnell, but he now knows he needs him.
Show me this refined, low key, strictly honest, perfectly moral, omniscient, policy guru president of which you guys speak. Start with JFK. It’s a straw man argument. He exists only in your head as a fantasy. Trump simply executes on his policy beliefs. If you want someone else with different policies, get them elected. Period. All the other criticisms and faux scandals are just juvenile ranting and scheming.
What a rant Drew! Always knew you were a true believer. Most have been rewarding to write such a nice tribute to your dear leader. But, you didnt address what I said. With a minimal of time, effort and Google you can find Trump taking many sides on different issues. Making many promises there was no way he could keep. Doesn’t matter for you believers. Whatever he decides to do you will find a way to support and justify his actions. There arent too many (any?) principles you will hang onto if they conflict with supporting Trump.
So will Dems do the same thing? I dont know. Making wild promises in the primary then running back to the center is the norm, but the promises have gotten wilder. I think that Dem voters will largely ignore them since, as I said, 6 months is ancient history, and voting for the right team is what is important.
Steve
@Drew
That was the best assessment I have seen, anywhere.
@steve
“was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal”
“if you like your health care plan, you can keep it”
I will await your denouncement of your dear leader as a liar and failure. Please hurry. I am holding my breath.
Hope I am answering before you have permanent brain damage, though it may be hard to tell the difference. If you like your health care you can keep it won the Lie of the Year award somewhere. I can live with that. Once it was clear that the ACA as actually written meant that health insurance plans would dump some people he should have stopped. So we ended with probably 2-3 million people losing their insurance. So he lied and it affected 1% of our population.
Since this is such a good example, lets compare with Trump’s promise on health care. ““We’re going to have insurance for everybody,†Trump said in press conference Jan. 11. “We’re going to have a healthcare that is far less expensive and far better.†None of this was carried out, so all of us have been affected, but yet it doesn’t make lie of the year, and I bet TB and the Trumpets dont care. Which is exactly what I said before, it looks like you can just say whatever you want, and make the promises even wilder, and people dont care.
Failure? He certainly wasn’t the greatest POTUS, unlike the Trump fans here who think he is the best thing ever. The economy grew steadily as did employment, at about the same rate as with Trump. Trump’s growth is a tad bit faster, but then he did it by increasing the deficit while with Obama we had decreasing deficits after the Recession was turned around. He got us out of Iraq, passed the ACA, helped negotiate the most restrictive nuclear arms deal ever with Iran and normalized relations with Cuba. Should have done better with Afghanistan, Libya and maybe Syria. Wish he had addressed opioid crisis because what we will mostly get with Republicans is more Drug Wars.
Steve
@steve
If I had more time and energy, I could come up with a lot more examples, but I really do not care. President Obama neither impressed nor disappointed me, and by my standards, he neither failed nor succeeded.
I am not your political opponents. I am a contrarian and anti-establishmentarian, and President Sanders would be almost as good. There would be #NeverSanders crowd and the Sanders haters. I would prefer Trump, but as long as the cool kids are pissed-off, it works for me.
Before Trump, there was no discussion about free-trade or illegal immigration allowed in polite society, and before Sanders, discussing socialism was not allowed, either. One was relegated to NASCAR tracks and the other to drum circles.
(In my opinion, Sen. Sanders is now following the progressive wave not leading a rebellion.)
As long as a politician is not accomplishing anything, nothing is being broken. Had President Obama kept his nose out of Libya and Syria, I could overlook his bowing. He was supposed to get us out of Afghanistan, but he did not go back into Iraq.
As to healthcare, it is totally f’d up, and until there is a British type socialized healthcare system, I am unimpressed by Obamacare or Trumpcare.
As long as the establishment, OTB, @FamousFictionWriter, and you are going batshit crazy over President Trump, I am happy. If you all get on the Trump train, I will be forced to get off, but if he can keep you all pissed-off until he is out of office, he will be the greatest president in my lifetime.
“Before Trump, there was no discussion about free-trade or illegal immigration allowed in polite society”
Before Trump we talked about illegal immigration and occasionally succeeded in addressing it. We built lots of fencing before Trump came into office. We beefed up the border patrol. We deported lots of people. Since Trump came to office we stopped doing anything, we just talk about the wall. There was tons of criticism of free trade from the left. It has actually been kind of funny to see them try to embrace it, halfheartedly and poorly IMO, now that Trump is in office.
“and you are going batshit crazy over President Trump, I am happy.”
Yup, I asked for some publicly available information about Trump and once that was found I said good enough for me. That is definitely going batshit crazy. Later tonight I am going to watch STRIPED paint dry, really going wild. (I think you did hold your breath too long after all.)
Steve