If you want to read a very good illustration of why I don’t think the Israelis are our friends, read this article by David Brinn in the Jerusalem Post. Of the two positions taken by Israelis in the article this is the more temperate:
The declaration by Norway, Ireland, and Spain calls for a Palestinian state on 1967 borders with Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and all the West Bank won by Israel in the Six-Day-War handed over to the Palestinians.
As Salman Rushdie so astutely stated in an interview this week, any Palestinian state coming into being in the foreseeable future would turn into a terrorist state, run and manipulated by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and their like-minded goons – for whom a state is just a means in which to continue their holy war to eradicate Israel.
But if the geopolitical trend continues, that is exactly the situation we’re headed toward. Israel will soon be totally isolated, and even the goodwill of the United States will be helpless against an onslaught of a combined European/Russian/Chinese front that stands in silence in memory of Raisi and justifies Hamas barbarism with rewards of statehood.
When the world no longer cares about differentiating between the victims and the aggressors, it’s clear that a new normal has arrived and that Israel – not Iran or Syria – is a rogue state.
The slippery slope is speeding up, and it’s unclear whether there’s any way to put the brakes on to stop it.
For the first time in some 30 years since moving to Ma’aleh Adumim, built on land won by Israel in 1967, I’m worried that I’ll be forced to leave and move to Israel ‘proper.’
Of course, that will be an Israel with the North and South already unlivable, which will be impossible to defend. With a hostile Hamas-run country on the border, it’s only a matter of a short time before October 7 takes place again and again.
The other position is, basically, the Likud position.
I will repeat what I’ve said before. Israel is not our friend but Hamas is our enemy. The choice isn’t between good guys and bad guys but between bad guys and worse guys. Given a choice between an Israeli victory in Gaza and a Hamas victory in Gaza we should choose an Israeli victory. But our support for Israel should be something less than full-throated.
Wow, what a histrionic piece of writing. Israel still has wide support in the US. If they just hadn’t tried the starvation route with the Palestinian population they would have had even more support. There is zero chance of another 10/7 if they dont pull the troops away from Gaza to increase the speed and number of settlements. Yes, there are a lot fo places that dont support them now, but they always want to blame it on anti-semitism, some of which is true, but there are lots of places in the world where they have only the vaguest idea what Jews believe and those places are not supporting Israel. They might want to think about their own policies.
Other than some Muslim dominant countries I would bet that everyone thinks Hamas is awful and much worse than Israel, but the issue is much more about Israel vs Palestinians in general.
Steve
I’d stay the course.
But then I wouldn’t let the cartels control our borders either.
“Palestinians” need to cross over to Egypt.
Danger is that Egypt becomes ruled by Hamas, Fortify THAT border.
Yes, that was my impression as well. It’s why I linked to it.
Here’s a question for you, steve. What responsibility do people bear for their votes? None? Some?
Just to be clear I don’t believe in the Aristotelian good vs. evil model as it applies to foreign relations. I think there are more than two alternatives. It’s not just support the Israelis vs. support Hamas.
How would we go about proving or disproving your claim about the support for Hamas?
Dave- Which votes? In general you are responsible for what you do unless there are extenuating circumstances.
“How would we go about proving or disproving your claim about the support for Hamas?”
We could actually ask people and clarify with follow up questions to make sure about the answer. For example in the US the polls often ask if people support a cease fire and if the answer is yes that is taken as supporting Hamas. You need to ask people specifically if they support Hamas and agree with their attack on 10/7. Sort of oddly, you almost never ask that question asked. I suspect it’s because pollsters know that few, outside the groups I mentioned, actually support Hamas.
Steve
“I suspect it’s because pollsters know that few, outside the groups I mentioned, actually support Hamas.”
That’s like saying no one supports murder yet votes in a manner that results in DAs who either don’t arrest, or turn back on the street, violent criminals.
I’m going to go out on a limb. I suspect very few, if asked, would say they support murder. (Well, maybe Lawrence ODonnel would describe the murder of Trump as “proper retribution for manifest wrongs.” ). But if you vote in a way that results in these DAs I hate to tell you. You support murder.
James Joyner at OTB had a good post: Why the IDF Fights As It Does
It is his commentary on an analysis of another writer’s post. The original Substack post does not seem to be paywalled, but I only read James’ quotes.
It might provide more insight.
I think this is similar to the Ukraine-Russia relationship, but that one is hundreds of years old. Either side will need to exterminate the other side, or they will be decades of peace followed by decades of war.