What’s the evidence that either the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson or that of Eric Garner in New York was due to race? I mean actual evidence rather than merely the fact that the police officers who killed them were white and they were black. If your position is that any interaction between any white man and any black man is necessarily affected by racism, that’s a pretty radical position.
It’s not just a question of theoretical interest. In order for federal civil rights suits to succeed you’d need to be able to prove racial animus in these particular cases rather than racism in general.
I have no doubt whatever that there are racist cops out there or that some of the killing of blacks by white police officers have had racial motivations. I’m just not so sure about these particular cases.
If I recall correctly, Civil Rights covers more than just race. I found the 1983 statute. (another less scholarly linl) I do not know if relatives of the deceased could use it.
I do not see how Michael Brown would fall under any Civil Rights violations, but the Eric Garner case may be a Civil Rights violation. It depends on how you kill them.
Travel with care over at OTB, Dave. Your buddy Reynolds wrote a War and Peace length comment over there blaming racism that started off with promise but quickly devolved into hysteria and the bizarre. The other members of the mutual admiration society chimed in and by time they were done they were making drinking plans.
Is there still racism in the US? Of course. There is no insight in that observation. Is that what’s going on in Ferguson and NYC? Not by my calculus. Rather, it’s been turned into nothing more than grist for the race baiters and………………..for someone who absolutely knows better given his position, the execrable political opportunism of our president and his attorney general henchman. I’ve spent a considerable portion of my life in Chicago and NY. I’ve seen it first hand; Cops can be gruff and arrogant. But I must say I’ve never seen trouble spring out of nowhere when you do what the cop says and keep the mouthing off and failure to obey commands for other venues.
Assume for the sake of my questions that the officer in the NYC choke hold case should be charged.
Can someone explain why the cop applying the choke hold should be charged but not the other officers involved in the arrest? I’ve also heard a police sergeant was supervising on site – shouldn’t she be subject to charges as well? After all, they actively participated in the action and did nothing to stop the homicide in progress.
Drew, when I was growing up we all knew this simple rule: Don’t fuck with the cops. Do people not learn this anymore?
I can’t help but wonder if the (documented) increase in the use of force by police officers is related to the relaxing of height standards.
I’ve read some pretty good arguments that there was a better manslaughter case against the other officers involved in the arrest than against the cop who applied the choke hold.
You will almost never be able to prove it in any given case. You need to look for patterns and see if any particular group has a disproportionate rate, which is true in the case of police homicides and minorities.
“Cops can be gruff and arrogant. But I must say I’ve never seen trouble spring out of nowhere when you do what the cop says and keep the mouthing off and failure to obey commands for other venues.”
Wealthy and white. We should be surprised? Suppose you were say, Puerto Rican, had a degree in engineering and an MBA. Raised by a career military guy. Inclined to follow orders and directions. Think that guarantees the cops leave you alone and don’t stop you for no apparent reason? You do realize that it takes more than just not mouthing off? That sometimes you need to grovel? That even asking why you were stopped risks an arrest, which means (potentially) your career is over?
“I’ve read some pretty good arguments that there was a better manslaughter case against the other officers involved in the arrest than against the cop who applied the choke hold.”
The thing that probably killed him was not letting him sit up. Sleep apnea, right heart failure, hypoxia +/- asthma. Guy probably hasn’t been able to lie down for years.
Steve
I can’t help but wonder if the (documented) increase in the use of force by police officers is related to the relaxing of height standards.
The cop that went after me after my car accident was about five foot nothing, when I later saw him in traffic court. That was 1988, and we were already running out of the Bubbas.
There’s a reason most bars have large bouncers. I think the biggest man I ever stood next to was a doorman/bouncer at the DC Hard Rock Cafe back in 1990. I’m sure Shaq was bigger, but even though I was in a room with him once, I never got near him. This bouncer was about 6′ 8″ tall and looked to be about 4,000 tons of muscle. He could have asked me to throw myself in front of a bus and I’d have probably done it rather than cross him.
It’s more class than race. Sell a cigarette and six cops choke you to death. Rig fx markets into the trillions and the President calls you his favorite banker, while you also get a direct line to the attorney-general theoretically responsible for prosecuting you.
Committing crime while poor is the real offense.
“In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.”
I’m not so sure. Certainly the perception is that it’s race. I’d like to see that statistics but, sadly, they don’t seem to be retained or, at least, are not reliable.
That they are not retained/unreliable suggests something to hide but it’s always possible that people are wrong in their expectations. The truth might actually support the police. Stranger things have happened.