Could someone please explain to me the opposition to mandates against being vaccinated against COVID-19? I genuinely don’t understand the argument.
Here’s what I think. I think that mandating vaccination is within the power of the states. I don’t think that it is within the power of the federal government and, especially, I do not believe that the president has the authority to require people to be vaccinated via executive order. I don’t even believe that requiring employees of government contractors to be vaccinated ex post facto is within the power of the president via executive order. I also think that issuing such edicts is a formula for a full-employment program for plaintiff’s attorneys.
I also think the states have the authority quarantine people. Whether they have the authority to quarantine people who aren’t sick is an open question.
I think that, although requiring children under 12 to be vaccinated against COVID-19 is within the power of the states, doing so would be a more complex matter than such a mandate for adults. Young children’s risk of contracting COVID-19 is so low and the risks of the vaccines are not non-zero. I have no idea of how many children would end up being exempt. The entire exercise could be meaningless.
So, could someone willing to talk about it please explain to me what’s wrong with mandates for adults to be vaccinated?
Here is the opposition case
(a) the mandates are implemented via “emergency” basis — ignoring procedural norms (like specific legislation).
(b) the mandates expand previous limits on vaccines mandates. Before the pandemic, vaccines were mandated for schools and certain specialized fields of employment. Now they are necessary for almost all fields of employment (since every employer of any importance is a government contractor) and things like restaurants.
(c) No one has articulated a limiting principle to the mandates.
(d) Questions about goals. Is the goal to get to zero COVID, reduce COVID to a manageable levels? If it is manageable levels, there’s an open argument if we are there already. If it is zero COVID, current vaccines with their current schedule (2 shots only) won’t get us there.
I don’t know, my opinion is vaccine mandates are missing the actual issue. We need better treatments and better vaccines full stop.
Here is a list of suggestions
(a) Make monoclonal antibodies a suggested “vaccination” treatment for everyone immunocompromised, or 75+, even if they don’t have COVID. They just released a trial that showed monoclonal antibodies prevent infection/illness for up to 8 months after treatment even in non-infected individuals. Vaccines don’t help much with the immunocompromised or the elderly (who have “immunosenescence”).
(b) Approve a non-mRNA, and non JnJ vaccine. There clearly are some people who prefer a “traditional vaccine” using established technology with known risks
(c) Research a sterilizing vaccine — This is the only way to zero-Covid
(d) Research anti-virals — Making good progress on this front
My own view is that zero-COVID is permanently beyond reach due to asymptomatic spread. Only one disease has actually been eradicated: smallpox. That differed from COVID-19 in a number of ways:
– there was no such thing as asymptomatic spread of smallpox
– the mortality rate of smallpox was 30% of those who contracted it
– it spread through droplets
– its mutation rate was apparently much slower
Add it all up and it tells me we need to learn to live with COVID-19.
Agree with you. Only 3 jurisdictions are doing zero-COVID now (Taiwan, China, Hong Kong).
Then that’s where there should be debate; what does it mean to live with COVID-19. How serious does an outbreak need to be before coercive measures are taken? How coercive?
Where is our state legislatures on this? Or the Congress?
In my view, it all depends on who is doing the mandating.
Andy got it. This isn’t about principles. In an alternate universe where Trump won the election and he was pushing vaccinations the red states would mandate and some of the blue states would resist.
Monoclonals are pretty expensive.
I dont think b will make much difference. They will just find another reason to not use them. Remember this is not about science or principles.
c is good. If we knew how to do it we would already have one. Agree with Dave that zero Covid is not realistic now.
Agree. We now have some good ones that look like they will work. Not sur eon costs of Pfizer drug.
Steve
On monoclonal’s for the elderly / immunocompromised — yes it is expensive. On the other hand, the data shows vaccines don’t work well enough for them, and the alternative is a high chance of a vastly more expensive hospital stay.
The next few weeks are key.
Cases are increasing again, and travel has been reopened with Europe, which is in the middle of an epic surge.
Lets hope boosters keeps the increase to a small plateau. Otherwise it could get ugly.
I am not opposed to it based upon expense. Idea has some merit. It would just be a lot cheaper if everyone got vaccinated and probably just as effective.
Steve
Completely anecdotal, but I’ll just put out there that four very close friends tested positive despite being fully vaccinated (this happened before boosters were approved).
And I’ve mentioned before my sister is in a memory care facility. Since July they’ve had six breakthrough infections. I just got an email about one more tonight. Due to county health regulations I haven’t been able to see her in about six weeks. And for now, that’s ok.
But the sense I’m getting is that breakthroughs are pretty common. If you look at trends over the last couple of weeks, the mountain west plus a few other states are seeing a bit of a surge. This is strange here in Colorado considering we are in the top 5 in terms of vaccination.
That the vaccines are not perfectly protective, that their effectiveness diminishes over time, that the period over which their effectiveness diminishes is largely unpredictable, and that, as a consequence, even vaccinated people contract COVID-19, sometimes seriously, suggests to me that even with 100% vaccination rates (something I doubt will ever happen) COVID-19 will result in more deaths than might otherwise have been the case for the foreseeable future.