If President Trump is tried on the charges in the indictment and not convicted or if the case is dismissed in the courts, will you be satisfied with the outcome?
I’ll be satisfied with the outcome whatever it might be. I also think the charges are serious.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-clinton-sock-drawer-audio-tape-case-exonerates-pres-trump/
The Clinton case will be a precedent the existing Trump indictment will have to go around in order to succeed.
IMO this indictment was a politicized creation that is only bringing more strife and polarization to an already divided country. No matter the outcome it will forge more harm than good.
if acquitted on all counts, like with Simpson, the jury has spoken. Would say the same if convicted on at least one charge. A society frays then falls when its institutions are disrespected.
Jan: The Clinton case will be a precedent the existing Trump indictment will have to go around in order to succeed.
The Presidential Records Act (PRA) lacks enforcement because it assumes good faith on the part of the president when discharging his responsibilities to preserve presidential records. The PRA probably won’t be relevant because the documents at issue are covered by the Espionage Act. Or are you saying a former president could transfer national security secrets to North Korea without violating the law by claiming they are private records?
By the way, most classified documents are covered by the Federal Records Act, which is subject to judicial review.
If it goes to SCOTUS we already know they will find him innocent regardless of facts or evidence. I wont be satisfied but I will accept it. Big cases like these are why people spend years giving money to judges. The judge hearing the initial case is a MAGA person with little legal experience so I expect a lot of bias in her rulings but expect appeals.
Steve
There is a difference between classified documents and classified markings. Once a document has been declassified, the markings of classification remain. Consequently, with obtuse verbiage from the DOJ and its partisan-assigned special prosecutor, one can bring an indictment without differentiating between the two. It has been thought that’s why Garland was so perturbed when the document case was initially referred over to a “Master,†to have these documents assessed as to their relevance and security issues. Consequently, the more people are looking under the covers of this indictment the more of a travesty of Justice it becomes.
Then you have these charges compared to a shrug of the shoulder when looking at the 1850 boxes of documents (stolen supposedly from a scif) laying around Biden’s garage —- someone who had no authority at the time to declassify anything, had no security around that garage or during the transfer of them to multiple sites. This is viewed by many as a thousand times more egregious than anything found in the secret service guarded Mar a Lago home of Trump.
The judge hearing the initial case is a MAGA person with little legal experience so I expect a lot of bias in her rulings but expect appeals.
Judge Cannon was nominated by Trump and approved on a bipartisan basis, not meriting her label by you of being a MAGA judge. However, Garland’s appointed prosecutor has a tawdry past of zealous partisan convictions. In the case of a VA governor, where Smith ruined his political career, the conviction was unanimously overturned in the Supreme Court. It’s interesting, though, how you rarely reference the partisan nature, let alone the corruption, in your own party, Steve.
jan: There is a difference between classified documents and classified markings.
True enough.
jan: Once a document has been declassified, the markings of classification remain.
Not quite. When documents are declassified, there’s a bureaucratic process for re-marking the documents. They remain government property, however, as they are government product for government purposes.
jan: Consequently, with obtuse verbiage from the DOJ and its partisan-assigned special prosecutor, one can bring an indictment without differentiating between the two.
Trump was playing fast and loose with the definition of classified. Apparently, he thought he could declassify with psychic waves. By subpoenaing documents marked classified, the government obviated the problem. The court agreed. At that point, Trump was under a legal obligation to provide all such documents. He could have contested the breadth of the subpoena. Or he could have contested ownership of specific documents after the fact. What he couldn’t legally do was ignore or obstruct the subpoena, for which there is substantial evidence.
jan: It has been thought that’s why Garland was so perturbed when the document case was initially referred over to a “Master,†to have these documents assessed as to their relevance and security issues.
They were perturbed because it stopped the national security investigation in an unprecedented manner. Cannon was slapped down by the appeals court.
jan: This is viewed by many as a thousand times more egregious than anything found in the secret service guarded Mar a Lago home of Trump.
That’s funny. {The chandelier is a nice touch, along with the faux gold fixtures.}
ETA: “Oh no oh no,†he texted.
Smith successfully prosecuted both Democrats and Republicans. What was corrupt about his prosecuting McDonnell? It was conceded that Smith was correct on the facts. The governor had accepted thousands of dollars in “gifts”. The SCOTUS, widely known for accepting “gifts” decided it is OK for a politician to accept gifts while in office. Do be specific about he did that was corrupt.
Steve
I agree with Dave.
This is a shameful Stalinist show trial. It is entirely without merit. It is a message from our Ruling Caste to us peasants. It is an indication that our “justice” system is utterly corrupt and politicized. What happens to a person in an American court depends on his connections or lack thereof.
The regime, federal, state, local, is beyond reform. It will continue to degenerate into a miasmic cesspool that will be maintained by brute force. Ruby Ridge and Waco were the harbingers.
Let’s see what the guy who protected Trump during the Mueller investigation has to say.
“Barr was asked by “Fox News Sunday†host Shannon Bream to respond to comparisons of Trump leaving the White House with classified documents to former Presidents Clinton and Obama, and President Biden when he was vice president.
Barr said that the difference is that other presidents worked with the National Archives to store those documents, unlike Trump who faces obstruction of justice charges over trying to keep from handing the records back over to the federal government.
“So, there are two big lies, I think, that are out there right now,†Barr said. “One is all these other presidents took all these documents. Those were situations where they arranged with the archives to set up special space under the management, control, and security provided by the archivists to temporarily put documents until the libraries were ready. These were not people just putting them in their basement, OK.â€
The second lie, according to Barr, is the notion that a president has “complete authority†to declare any document “personal.â€
“It’s facially ridiculous. That opinion had to do with the distinction between official records, which are records prepared by government agencies for the purpose of government action, and personal documents, as opposed to official documents, which are things prepared by the President, such as a diary or notes, which are not used in the government’s deliberations,†Barr said.”
Steve
I’ll be satisfied when it makes sense.
There’s a lot of innuendo out there suggesting Trump took home documents in order to enrich himself selling them to foreign governments.
There’s no evidence for that and it’s just not consistent with what we know about Trump.
After four years of being the target of partisan investigations beginning with the transcript of a phone call what is consistent and makes sense is that he didn’t want to leave the documents where his enemies could riffle through them after he left office.
But his enemies, (enemies of half of America), had the justice department trail him to Mar A Lago in order to derail a second presidential bid.
All of this is Trump on the defensive, not Trump scheming for personal gain, that would be our current presidential family.
Justice should be after the bad guys, this prosecution stinks and half of the electorate agrees with that.