I am not pro-Russian but I am anti-anti-Russian.
I’m not anti-Ukrainian. I support the Ukrainian people in their conflict against the Russians. I don’t support the Russian invasion of Ukraine and weep for the Ukrainian people.
I am pro-American. I don’t think the mindless anti-Russian views or the unqualified, effusive pro-Ukrainian stances presently being expressed serve the interests of the United States.
While the Russians and the Ukrainians have differences in their outlooks and cultures, I think that most Americans would be surprised at how much they have in common with each other—more unites them than divides them. Both are very nationalistic. Neither are liberal democrats. Both of their governments are incredibly corrupt. Coming from someone who lives in Illinois, that’s a lot.
I do not support the Ukrainians, because they are dominated and controlled by actual Nazis, real 1930s/40s Nazis. This is not so strange. Naziism was a popular mass movement throughout much of Europe, including Britain and the Netherlands. Its main competitors were Italian Fascism (very popular in the US and UK) and Communism (Marxist-Leninist). Nowadays this is forgotten, WW II being to awful.
If you think I’m wrong, go over to Moon of Alabama (the best blog for international stuff). Bernard has compiled a very long list of links to mainstream media like the NYT with stories denouncing Ukrainian Naziism. Because of the war, the same groups like Azov Battalion, Svoboda, Right Sektor that were routinely denounced as Nazis are now called right wing.
If you still are sympathetic to the Ukrainian side, then you are required to hate the US. The US started the current war by attacking and removing the legitimate, democratically elected government, and installed the current, Nazi-dominated junta. The US also sabotaged the Minsk accords that would have settled the civil war. Moreover, the US is actively preventing peace negotiations.
Whatever Russia, the US is The Evil Empire, a rogue terrorist that went beserker after the fall of the USSR.
Did the site get a notice from “the department of homeland security counter disinformation governance board†?
In the last Ukrainian election about 15% of votes were cast for ultra-nationalist parties. The Azov Battalion actually exists (or at any rate existed) and it was heavily involved in the defense of Mariupol. If you’re wondering why Mariupol was damaged so extensively, that’s it.
I’m not as in love with Moon of Alabama as you are. The blog basically promotes Russian propaganda (a term I find more useful than “disinformation”). Vineyard of the Saker is even worse.
I don’t think that the truth resides either in Ukrainian propaganda or in Russian propaganda but there are elements of truth in both. For example, I wouldn’t be surprised if the British estimates (largely derived from the Ukrainian government) of Russian troops KIA are approximately correct. I’m highly skeptical of the low estimates of Ukrainian troops KIA. If anything, IMO it’s fairly likely that more Ukrainian troops have been killed than Russian. That’s something we don’t hear much about.
I support the Ukrainians to the extent that I don’t think the Russians should have invaded, I think the Ukrainians should have their own country, and I’m sad that so many Ukrainians have died. I don’t think that the U. S. should be supporting Ukrainian ultra-nationalism. I don’t think it’s in the U. S. interest.
“I think that most Americans would be surprised at how much they have in common with each other”
Really? They are neighbors with some historical origins. Foods are similar, religions, etc. Of course they have lots in common. We have a lot in common with Canada? Does that give us the right to invade and force them to be part of the US?
“I don’t think that the U. S. should be supporting Ukrainian ultra-nationalism.”
Who is supporting Ukrainian ultranationalist? Sending them weapons so they can fight back constitutes support of ultra-nationalism? Really hard to not see Russia’s actions as a form of ultra-nationalism. Suppose Mexico grows some Nazis. We get to invade them? We are really going to extremes here to justify Russia invading.
Steve
And yet the Russians are bad but the Ukrainians are good. How can that possibly be?
I’m not justifying Russia’s invasion. I think we need to distinguish between supporting the Ukrainians and supporting their nationalism.
To use your Mexico analogy, our support for Mexico is conditional. We shouldn’t support their racism and abuse of native peoples in Mexico. I don’t think we do.
Not that hard to figure out Dave. Ukraine doesnt invade other countries. It doesnt demand economic exclusion of other nations. Note that a large chunk of former USSR nations seem to feel the same way. They want to join NATO becasue they dont trust/are afraid of Russia. If Russia were the benign entity you seem to want to portray it as why are all of those neighbors so worried?
“To use your Mexico analogy, our support for Mexico is conditional. We shouldn’t support their racism and abuse of native peoples in Mexico. I don’t think we do.”
I dont think we do either which gets back to Ukraine. I dont think we are supporting Ukraine nationalism. We are providing weapons and intel to a sovereign country that was invaded so they can fight against an aggressor.
Steve