While I have no doubt that the motivations of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee are mixed in going hammer and tongs after Attorney General Eric Holder, I am genuinely astonished at some of the arguments that intelligent people are making about the underlying facts of the case. To the best of my knowledge there is no question that one of the guns used in the murder of agent Brian Terry was supplied by the BATF, that the BATF had an expectation that the gun would be used in a crime (indeed, the entire operation would have been meaningless otherwise), and that they did not intervene to report the transfer of the gun or otherwise prevent its use.
So, for example, when Steven Taylor argues:
If the specific gun in question had not been allowed to walk, would the agent in question be alive today? This strikes me as unlikely, as it isn’t as if Mexican cartels are known for having a hard time acquiring guns.
it is simply irrelevant. That would certainly make a revolutionary defense in accessory law. Imagine, for example, a getaway driver arguing that there were plenty of other people who could have driven the bankrobbers from the scene of the crime and that bankrobbers, generally, don’t have a problem escaping from the banks they rob. It doesn’t matter. All that matters are there is an underlying crime (the murder of Brian Terry), that BATF supplied the gun, and that BATF had knowledge that the gun would be used for a crime. It also appears to me that BATF acted with recklessness and negligence.
I don’t much care who benefits or is hurt politically. I think that our law enforcement organizations need to be much more cautious in employing “sting” operations, particularly when the operations can put lives at risk.
Strange rule-of-law statement coming from the very guy who doesn’t mind the privilege of getting off a speeding ticket by virtue of being a newlywed.
I really can’t fault the conspiracists much for trying to make some sense of this fiasco. I’d sure like to see the original plan.
I’m assuming that even Holder doesn’t agree with Prof Taylor, since why would the government initially deny gun walking occurred? Also, the story is out there, and DOJ keeps having to walk back its previous positions because descent, outraged people in the DOJ/ATF are leaking documents and information which seem to show that the political appointees are covering up this crazy operation for reasons that appear mystifying.
I listened to a nice 47-minute podcast backgrounder from David Kopel at Volokh Conspiracy yesterday, which is the best analytical treatment I’ve consumed so far. At least one explanation is that Lanny A. Breuer, second to Holder, signed off on wiretap applications that had detailed information about F&F. This was previously denied, but some of the applications were leaked, and its too embarrassing for the government to admit that Breuer either (a) didn’t care or (b) was signing paperwork, without reading, like he’s getting paid $30 per hour in a foreclosure mill. And everybody apparently like Breuer?
I can buy this argument, I just dont see the gun control conspiracy arguments. There has been no movement for gun control on a national level.
Since I always try to think of alternatives before I am too critical, we know that US bought guns are being used by the cartels. How would you stop this?
Steve
Kopel also uses the Underpants Gnome theorty to explain F&F:
1. Allow Mexican drug lords to get American guns illegally;
2. ? ? ?
3. Stop Mexican drug lords.
Although Steve and I have a difference here- I ALWAYS look to the obvious first- lets stipulate that he is correct, and this wasn’t really an intentional gun walking op…………..then what in the world were they doing. Why provide the opportunity for increased gun volume. And if they want to take the tack that they actually stopped the effort started under Bush then why all the secrecy. They would be shouting from the mountain tops “look at us!!” “Look at what we did!” This whole thing just makes you ask “what?” “What!!” it’s incredulous.
Totally separately, being the idiot I am, Steve, I decided to start playing tennis with my wife without really slowly working up thigh and knee strength, especially laterally. And I’ve turned up with left knee pain and restricted motion that feels like fluid filled joint restriction. Mild swelling. A quick Internet review makes it seem like a mild meniscus tear could be in the mix. I know you are going to tell me anti-inflammatories, rest, elevation and see a PT or ortho for standard diagnostics. The simple question is, is there a way to differentiate a simple “muscle related sore knee” from something more serious?
According to Dave Kopel they actually restarted the effort that was ended after just a few months in 2007. Supposedly, they had much more interagency cooperation this time, Drew.
Gun control doesn’t seem a proper conspiracy here. Lanny Breuer approved some wiretaps. Who were the targets?
Drew- You want to make sure you dont have real ligament damage. Get someone to help you. Hold your leg straight out with their help. See if they can wiggle your lower leg left and right at the knee. If they can, this suggests instability and ligament damage. Next, sit with your knee at 90 degrees. Have your examiner see if they pull your lower leg forward or push it back at the knee. This would also suggest instability. If either of these are positive, get thee to an orthopedist. Otherwise I would just use conventional stuff unless the pain persists and then go see your PCP or a sports medicine guy.
Clicking or sudden catching in movement may suggest a meniscus tear, but I dont think there is a reliable clinical exam for it. Needs an MRI to be sure. Good luck, and yes, this getting older stuff kinda sucks, but I always remember the alternative. ( I dont generally give out treatment advice on line, but if you want you can tell your wife you talked with the internet doctor and he said lots of sex will help. 🙂
Steve
Steve
Thanks. I feel the same degree of discomfort in going too far on an Internet site with investment advice. Which is why I pretty much just keep to raw fundamentals.
As for the, uh, shall we call it “alternative or holistic medicine advice” – heh- I’m thinking that has as much chance as winning tonight’s Powerball. However, I can guarantee I will tell her that you are probably the single most talented and brilliant physician I have ever known, with insights that transcend with profound positive results standard orthopedic treatment protocols. Unfortunately, I think I’m going to get “go to sleep.”
Seriously, thanks. As I like to quip, I’m not a doctor, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I put myself through the joint stability routine. There is no evidence of abnormal range of motion indicating ligament damage. Very stable. However, the pain is real and more persistent (it happened three weeks ago) than I had expected. As we age we all get those clicks and such, so it’s clicking, but maybe no more than usual. It’s anterior, below the patella, and on the left side of the knee, which I guess makes it lateral, right at the level where the meniscus would be.
I’m going to have to go to a PT I trust from my cervical disc days, have him put me through the drills, and go from there.
Thanks.