There’s a lot we don’t know about the crimes being reported on with great fanfare that were revealed in the Pennsylvania grand jury’s report. For example, why did it take the Pennsylvania AG and state grand jury so long to act after the story broke in the Boston Globe 14 years ago? What proportion of the cases involved children rather than adolescents and males rather than females? Why did their investigation reach back 70 years? What is the distribution of the crimes over time? What process do those calling for reform envision for that reform? Let me disabuse them: any reform movement must come from within the Church hierarchy. The Catholic laity is utterly powerless to effect any reform. The most they can do is leave.
We also don’t know the incidence of these crimes among priests let alone among public school teachers, physicians, and other therapists.
Let me disabuse them: any reform movement must come from within the Church hierarchy. The Catholic laity is utterly powerless to effect any reform. The most they can do is leave.
I’m not convinced you’re right about this but I fear that you might be. If true, the Church is doomed and I’m not ready to accept that. The hierarchy has now proven beyond shadow of a doubt that it is unable to clean its own house, and there are likely many, many broken human beings in the priesthood. There’s also likely a system run by people who are deliberately breaking them (consider the numbers of seminarians who were likely abused boys themselves, and the allegations that seminarians who question things are forced out.)
“We also don’t know the incidence of these crimes among priests let alone among public school teachers, physicians, and other therapists.”
No, we don’t. But I feel nearly 100% confident it exceeds what the general population suspects. The laity can quit en masse. People can quit going to doctors, or to school…….etc. It would be nice virtue signaling, but not particularly efficacious. Probably better for the brave few to bring legal action, which has its own set of problems. The human condition and its issues cannot be neatly solved and delivered with a bow.
Star Chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber
The investigation is going back 70 years because the more victims, the more lawsuits, resulting in more money going into the pockets of the ambulance chasers. Plus it’s easier to smear and convict dead people because they can’t defend themselves.
I also disagree that the laity are powerless. They have feet and pocketbooks. Empty pews, empty schools, equals empty treasury. That might get someone’s attention.
“Plus it’s easier to smear and convict dead people because they can’t defend themselves.”
Sure, At this point it is clear that this is all a hoax and just a way to hurt the Church and make some lawyers rich.
Steve
Fuck the catholic church. They’ve had enough chances. And seriously—-how can you defend them at this point, David, my only son’s godfather??????
I’m not defending the clergy. I’m condemning them. I don’t think they’re the Church. At this point I think the laity is the Church.
As the one who probably disagrees most frequently with Dave, I would say that he has been pretty harsh, appropriately, with the Catholic Clergy. His last sentence is true, maybe putting things in perspective a bit, but then I think you could also say we still don’t really know the true incidence among priests either since I wouldnt assume we have caught them all yet. There is so much emphasis in our society on fear of the “other” while we have ignored some large issues just because the crimes were being committed by people we like, who are just like us, and we didn’t want to confront the problems.
Steve
This topic has certainly struck a chord. How about a different example than the Monsanto example I invoked a few comments ago.
Bernie Madoff was a money manager and crook who bilked people of millions. Do we infer that money management should be outlawed, and put our savings in a mattress? Do we look with derision on the Goldman Sachs, Northern Trusts, Charles Scwabs or Brownn Brothers of the world? No. We put Bernie Madoff in jail.
A certain former poster here, and frequent poster at OTB seems to think that the church’s role in morality makes a difference. I find that argument spurious. Doctors are notorious for not policing their own. Policeman routinely close ranks even though there are bad eggs. Look at the upper echelon of the FBI vs the rank and file in the current scandal investigation. If the Chairman for the National Counsel for the Arts is diddling his secretary would you recommend suspending all contributions? Should we disband law enforcement? Those people all have moral obligations. No, we (at least those among us who are sane) don’t call for the abolition of those institutions.
The issue is one of governance. What can you do about it? I have news for people, you can quit the church or withhold contributions for the National Counsel, or call for the end to the AMA but they will exist tomorrow. As I’ve said, the brave few need to go after the perpetrators through criminal or civil action. Its harder that hurling invective from the sidelines, but its really the only viable action.