I recommend that you read Ruy Teixeira’s latest offering, on “The Democrats’ Patriotism Problem”. He’s not talking about all Democrats but about the relatively small cadre of activists and those who work on political campaigns who wield exceptional power within the party as this passage makes clear:
In my October piece, I noted that:
Democrats have a bit of a problem with patriotism. It’s kind of hard to strike up the band on patriotism when you’ve been endorsing the view that America was born in slavery, marinated in racism and remains a white supremacist society, shot through with multiple, intersecting levels of injustice that make everybody either oppressed or oppressor on a daily basis. Of course, America today may be a racist, dystopian hellhole, but Democrats assure us that it could get even worse if the Republicans get elected. Then it’ll be a fascist, racist, dystopian hellhole.
As I opined then, that doesn’t seem very inspirational.
What, if anything, has changed since then? Not much, I’d say. Of course, not all Democrats, especially normie working-class Democrats, subscribe to this nightmarish version of their own country. But among Democratic activists and cultural elites such sentiments are very common—and among those who lean progressive, dominant.
and I want to endorse this particular recommendation:
It’s all pretty weak tea compared to what’s really needed: a robust revival of the American civil religion in Robert Bellah’s formulation. This is the nonsectarian, quasi-religious faith based around national symbols, founding documents and ideals, holidays, heroes, epic events, rituals and stories that has bound—and can bind—Americans together across social and regional divisions.
But, since the 1960’s, as Brink Lindsey observes:
[F]aith in American civil religion has been wrecked on the shoals of disillusionment…[T]the critical spirit of the mass adversary culture was able to break through the complacency of “national self-worship†and bring into much wider awareness the darkest and most tragic elements of the American past. Among progressives, this revisionist understanding of our history has led to an ebbing — and sometimes, an outright renunciation — of patriotism, in the latter case dismissing it as nothing more than another species of bigotry….For progressives to recover faith in their country, they don’t need to avert their eyes from its dark side. But they likewise cannot turn away from America’s world-historically unique promise — and the immense amount of good which commitment to that promise has made possible, both here and all around the world.
Reviving the American civil religion is a noble cause which is also a precondition for building the robust coalition across social and regional divides that Democrats seek. Democrats have tried uniting the country around the need to dismantle “systemic racism†and promote “equityâ€â€¦.and failed (and will continue to fail). Democrats have tried uniting the country around the need to save the planet through a rapid green transition…and failed (and will continue to fail). It’s time for Democrats to return to something’s that’s tried and true.
That is precisely what Chesterton wrote about when he declared that “America is a country founded on a creed”. We lack the ties of blood and history that bind other countries together. We undermine that creed at significant risk. I will leave it to you to explain why the 10% of Americans Mr. Teixeira laments are seeking to undermine it. Without it the only ties that bind us together are those of family and neighborhood and those are eroding day by day.
I don’t believe that anything good will emerge from that erosion. I think that more likely is a continuation of the sort of individualism on steroids we’ve seen from both extremes of the political spectrum for the last 40 years.
Does many people really believe in patriotism anymore? What I seem to find is that the people who claim to be patriots actually hate about half of their country. They like to dress up in flags but never served their country or do anything that benefits anyone other than themselves.
Steve
Gallup
Pew
Percentage of military who are conservatives
In other words there are clear differences between the political parties both in terms of patriotism and military service.
IMO without patriotism the U. S. is just a bus stop.
So you are defining patriotism like Gallup ie very proud of America? Would that then exclude MAGA people since they dont think America is great? Are you really proud of America if you are selective about what you are proud? Suppose you dont like cities. That’s pretty common where I grew up and still is when I go back home. They definitely arent proud of cities, which is where a large chunk of our population lives.
Or, by you last cite are you claiming being conservative means you are a patriot? All of them? Could you define it better than that and what attribute fo conservative makes them a patriot? AS I said, what I really see is that conservatives are pretty selective about what part fo America they value.
Steve
In the text of the last link they show percentages of those serving in the military by political affiliation. The “Percentage of military who are conservatives” is their diction.
If you have a definition of “patriotism” that proves you point, please produce it. I think the reality is that the only definition of patriotism by which a majority of progressives are patriotic is something like “loving the country for what it might become” which certainly isn’t a conventional definition.
My definition would be something like “willing to fight/risk one’s life to defend the country”. If we have to use the word love then something like “loves the entire county”. Otherwise, I would use the definitions in the dictionaries… “devotion or vigorous support of one’s nation”. I know very few or read very few conservatives who are devoted to or support their entire country, just the parts they like. Pretty clear that most of them dont support San Francisco as an example.
Which goes back to my original statement. We dont have much patriotism in the classic sense where people would love the entire country, even the parts they didnt like so much. Where they regarded our country as near perfect. We are way too tribal. People are devoted to their tribe.
That said, my sense is that most people are pretty positive about the country while acknowledging its faults.
Query- You have been criticizing our foreign policy? Is that unpatriotic? If not, why is that OK but criticizing other US policy would not be acceptable?
Steve
Contra Steve, I don’t think patriotism is defined by liking all the people in the country or refraining from criticism. Patriotism is based on loving an ideal version of one’s nation. Criticizing the ways that we fail to live up to the ideal is not unpatriotic per se…in fact in the case of American patriotism, the freedom of expression to make those those critiques is part of what makes up the ideal.
Conservatism tends to be more likely to overlook flaws because its foremost aim is to preserve what is good. It starts from the premise that the nation is worthy of preservation but can be carefully and methodically reformed when it fails to live up to ideals. Progressive ideologies are more insistent on rapid reforms that can undermine the structures that conservatives see as necessary for the nation to retain its foundational ideals. And lately there are some progressive projects that reject outright even the idea that our nation was founded on the moral high ground, so those who promote those ideas are certainly not patriotic.
IMO the only places in which steve’s view fits is in highly socially cohesive, consensus-based societies which tend to be quite homogeneous in ethnic, cultural, religious, and political terms. Japan, for example.
As should be needless to say that doesn’t describe the U. S.
“some progressive ”
Some meaning 8% of Dems per the author, or about 3% of the country.
“defined by liking all the people in the country ”
How about hating them since that is what we are really talking about? Can you be a patriot while hating half of the country?
“Patriotism is based on loving an ideal version of one’s nation.”
Whose ideal? Conservatives love aversion with no liberals. Liberals would love a version with no conservatives.
Steve
How about hating them since that is what we are really talking about? Can you be a patriot while hating half of the country?
Hmm, I don’t know. There was a point in our history when half of the country went to war with the other half. Did the Union soldiers and their families hate the Confederates? Were they patriotic and trying to uphold and perfect the ideals that they believed America was founded on?
But bringing it back to your arguments about current times, what percentage of conservatives, in your estimate, hate liberal/progressives? And vice versa? Does it matter if one group is over represented in “hating� Or who started it? And what’s the basis of your estimates anyway? You see conservatives “hating†San Franciscans…I see liberals behaving similarly toward the Walmart-shopping -dumb-rednecks-in-flyover-country. Is that hate? Sometimes yes, probably more often a mixture of distaste, disagreement, and lack of mutual understanding for one another. Not very healthy for the Republic but not really relevant as a measure of patriotism IMO.
I do think there’s far too much polarization, poisonous rhetoric, and acrimony. I think we’ve lost the ability to “agree to disagreeâ€, and that’s dangerous because as Dave pointed out, we’re a very heterogeneous society. If you’re simply saying that real patriotism demands a degree of acceptance of diverse views and lifestyles, I’d agree with that. I note too though that even a fair number of left-leaning folks are recently expressing concern because they’re seeing more intolerance from left to right direction than from the right toward the left. Classical liberalism is the glue that is not holding.
You know, I have never heard anyone say they hate people in flyover country. There are certainly a small percentage that look down on them but I grew up in those areas, live and work in semi rural areas now and there are probably the same percentage there that look down on city people/liberals.
” I note too though that even a fair number of left-leaning folks are recently expressing concern because they’re seeing more intolerance from left to right”
But you dont see people on the left then turn around and claim that they are the true patriots.
Steve
The phenomenon of city people looking down on country folk and vice versa is longstanding. From the standpoint of the more rural and suburban conservatives, this has intensified because liberals have gained control over education and the entertainment culture (which dominates the kids’ lives and feels like indoctrination) as well as public policy through increasingly centralized government. A lot of the acrimony too is driven by politicians using wedge issues because it’s so much easier than actually legislating good policy.
The difference between conservatives and liberals in claiming to be patriotic is largely related to difference in hierarchy of values. Intolerant liberals don’t claim to be patriotic because that’s not even a positive value for them, but they do claim, for example to be anti-racist and call their opponents bigots. In both cases there’s often hypocrisy and the rhetoric is offensive to people on the opposing side.
This screenshot is our County assessor website’s drop down language menu.
I understand CYA, but it illustrates fragmentation is not a bug in today’s progressive America, it’s a feature.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/092fX9aNR6LN8ONeZmYsPpTxA
Education is controlled by local school boards. City liberals cannot control the education of rural kids. Most teachers will reflect the values of their local community. If there is a liberal teacher trying to spread liberal values the school and parents have the ability to stop that if they pay attention. However, what is really happening in many places is that parents are attacking schools for stuff that they weren’t really doing, or trying to engage in controlling teaching by eliminating books that were widely accepted in the past expanding what is unacceptable.
Steve
Most teachers will reflect the values of their local community.
I doubt that and it hasn’t been my experience. It’s also demonstrably true that the teachers unions do not reflect the values of conservative districts and that even in conservative districts the school board candidates backed by the unions win 70% of the races.
It’s only recently that conservative parents are waking up to this, partly due to the pandemic and online schooling . But when they show up to voice their concerns, people like yourself describe their actions as “attacks†and “attempting to controlâ€, and the Biden DOJ treats them as domestic terrorists.