I see that memories about Medicare have faded over the years:
President Barack Obama says he’s not worried that all the Obamacare fights will kill the law — because people fought the creation of Medicare and Social Security too, and now they’re more popular than ever.
Democrats have always wanted to believe Obamacare would follow the same pattern: Opponents tried to block passage of the new programs, but once they became law, the public saw the benefits and the opposition faded away.
Yes, other than that Social Security and Medicare both were enacted into law with bipartisan support while ObamaCare was enacted only with Democratic votes, Medicare had the support of more than 60% of Americans when it was enacted into law in 1965, and Medicare has never been unpopular, the programs are just the same.
It is more complex that that. If you look at the individual parts of the ACA, they nearly all poll at about 60% or higher. Only the individual mandate remains unpopular.
http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/march-2013-tracking-poll/
Steve
There’s an old Yiddish proverb: if my grandmother had balls, she’d be my grandfather. When you compare apples to apples, Medicare has always been popular while ObamaCare remains unpopular with the majority of Americans.
I’m sure you could find aspects of Medicare that people don’t approve of. But that’s not what’s under discussion.
Dave, it seems to me your argument smacks of:
“Well, you’ve shown me the library, the lecture halls, the dining halls, the students, and the professors, but where is the university?”
Well, the popularity of Medicare, like Medicaid, insurance, religion and state lotteries depends on ignorance. If and when the populace learns how much it’s getting gored, they will all fail.
One can only hope that the young generation will throw out Obamacare along with Medicare, religion and opposition to gays and recreational drugs. It seems that they are well on the way!
sam:
It’s more that I think that steve’s response is akin to “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?”
Steve’s right. Simply to say that Obamacare is unpopular is as irrelevant as saying that Candidate X is unpopular before learning the identity of Candidate Y. Or saying that vanilla is unpopular before we learn that the only other flavor available is cow patty.
Things are popular or unpopular relative to their alternatives. The IRS and the income tax have been unpopular forever. So what? What’s the alternative? As soon as we start detailing the alternatives, the current tax system looks better to most people. Ditto the ACA.
Given that the only alternative currently being offered is, “Go back to what it used to be,” I think the ACA is doing fine. Maybe if the GOP had a plan. . . But of course, they don’t. So ask people, “Do you like the fact that your adult kids can stay on your medical plan or do you want to terminate that right now?” Ask them if they want to go back to people being rejected for pre-existing conditions. Ask them if they want the cheaper plans coming through the exchanges or to pay more for a policy that can be randomly canceled.
Look, you and I and pretty much every rational person would rather see a single payer system. It is not on the table. It is not on the table because the GOP literally cannot bring itself even to begin to address health care reform. Why? Because nothing in their core beliefs is remotely applicable to the actual issues at hand. The GOP denies that the government should have a role, period.
So, for now we have this cobbled-together mess which contains within it one lovely fact: health care is now a federal government problem. Which means that Obamacare cannot be simply wished away without being replaced. Which in turn will require the GOP eventually to come to grips with reality on pre-existing conditions, on free riders, etc…
I’m genuinely sorry we couldn’t do it your way. But there are a whole bunch of deeply stupid assholes out there who make it impossible to do things rationally. So we do them this way.
Yeah, Michael, it,s better to settle for dog poo than nothing. What a rationalization!
One thing Steve said, some time ago, though, is that the introduction of obamacare has opened up the conversation more about health care options. There’s nothing like an adverse plan installed to get people’s creativity motivated.
No, Jan, it’s better to take a half a loaf rather than starve. That’s the choice your party left us with: a terrible system that bankrupted the sick, or a system that is at least an effort at compassion.
I realize that last word is absent from the vocabulary of all the good Christians in the GOP, but it matters to some of us. Maybe it’s an atheist thing. But we, unlike you apparently, don’t think it’s okay that a man with cancer be forced off insurance he’d paid into all his life so that he can die knowing his illness has pushed his family into a homeless shelter. See, we think that’s contemptible in the richest nation on earth.
Oh, and thanks for validating the point I’ve been making for years now in this blog:
Yeah, now we’re going to get “creative.” Now that we shoved a plan down down your throats and forced you to actually think about the issue, now suddenly, creativity! Now it’s a federal matter. Now it’s increasingly seen as a right. And now, waaaaay too damn late, your ilk are suddenly ready to motivate your creativity.
Great. Let u all know what you come up with. Of course it goes without saying that once you come up with a plan, if Obama endorses it, you’ll turn against it. See: Romneycare. See: exchanges.
If you’re quite done now with your 5 year hate-a-thon maybe you could get some of your imbecile Congressmen to actually pay attention to actual problems of actual people. If you can tear yourselves away from birth certificates long enough.
Take a chill pill, Michael. Your remarks often just get lost in a swamp of hysteria. There must be some better options, somewhere in between people dying from cancer, heartlessly left out of healthcare, and the ill-conceived obamacare being ruthlessly and deceptively brewed by the left. Regarding hate-a-thons, unfortunately most of that is fostered and slung at those who disagree from your “ilk.”
Speaking of conversations, health care policy/economists on the left are already preparing for when the right regains power. The conversations are nice and civil, trying to figure out what the right will propose (probably nothing but who knows), and which of those they could support. Much better than the near total rejection/obstruction on the right, which I expect from the politicians but has been so depressing coming from their intellectual elites.
Steve
Jan:
Where were you and your party 5 years ago? Where’s your party now? Where’s the GOP plan that will replace Obamacare? Your party has voted 40 times to repeal it. 40 times. And put forward nothing to replace it.
Steve:
Since the logical move is to single payer or Medicare for all I can’t imagine the GOP will support either. It doesn’t fit their ideology. So they’re left with nonsense – trying to keep pre-existing conditions protections and adult children coverage and the exchanges – while trimming away mandates. Of course that will make no sense at all. But why should that be an impediment to the GOP?
Michael, IMO neither party has taken on the status of “being the adult in the room,” in either the domestic or foreign policy arenas. Regarding the GOP voting so many times to repeal the ACA, that was for symbolism purposes, and to keep the distaste for this healthcare legislation on the front line, and appeal to their base. Backing a bill because the other side has failed to come up with a better one, though, is not a sign of good thinking. It’s far better to do nothing than to make things worse.