As you have undoubtedly heard President Trump was found guilty on all counts in the NYC trial. I believe that is the first time in U. S. history a former president has been found guilty of a felony after serving his term as president.
I suspect we’ll witness a lot more history in coming weeks. It may be memorable but I doubt it will be fun.
Does anyone care to make any side bets on whether the convictions will be reversed on appeal?
How about a side bet that Donald Trump will be elected President in Nov, but ordered to go to jail on Jan 19th.
It would be hilarious if Riker’s Island is the White House from 2025 to 2029.
No bet here. I do find it incredibly weird that New York doesn’t allow the jury instructions to be taken into the deliberation room. This seems to be based on the highest court’s ruling that doing so would constitute reversible error. But in a world where jury instructions like those here go on for over fifty single-spaced pages, it’s a mockery of the notion that the jurors are applying the law. They still may not apply or fully understand the law with copies of the instructions in hand, but it would provide the opportunity for the deliberations to take into account shared text. This can’t be reversal grounds, but if I wonder if this context comes into play in reviewing the adequacy of the jury instructions.
I think the vast majority of legal opinion observes there is a target rich environment of reversibility arguments. And it should be reversed. The issue is, as A Dersch put it, do these people in the NY appellate system want to be ostracized?
Sad commentary.
So that means SC. If they take it.
But the original objective has been achieved, create an inability to campaign, or a label. As the crook Harry Reid noted, “so what if it’s not true, it worked didn’t it?” And Biden comments were cynical and vapid. He represents everything wrong with American politics for 50 years now. Talk about lack of character.
But payback is a bitch. This is a sad day for US politics and the legal system. Because I fear payback will be the reaction.
Had dinner with my friend who was our corporate lawyer for 20 years. There were 2 lawyers on the jury so he thought it unlikely that they didnt understand the instructions. He followed the trial closely and thought the evidence strong that Trump had the affair, that he paid Cohen to keep it quiet and that they altered records to keep it from hurting his election effort. IOW he definitely committed the crime. However, the judges instructions to the jury about 3 choices of which law was broken might make it reversible. He also wasn’t so sure about statute of limitations.
Steve
Cohen testified that Trump didn’t know about the payments. The original monies were secured by Cohen by putting a loan on his own home. He was then compensated by billing his boss in sequential legal fees, which were then logged in by the bookkeeper as “legal fees.” Cohen’s assertion that Trump was not a party to any pay-off was collaborated by Costello, Cohen’s former attorney who Cohen earlier had waived all rights to client-privilege, describing conversations with his then client that he had nothing on Trump that could be used to save himself from going to jail for his own legal problems. The discussion entailed prosecutors pressuring Cohen to “throw Trump under the bus” in order to alleviate his own illegalities.
As far as attorneys on the jury giving some semblance of justice to the proceedings – that is a misnomer. They can be as biased and subjective in their renderings as anybody else. Like Drew wrote above, a diverse assembly of constitutional, legal experts have said this trial was fabricated on garbage law and oversight by a biased judge, in order to sideline a political opponent and save Biden’s reelection. You’re going to have to live with how far down the drain your party has gone in order to win.
Dave Schuler: I believe that is the first time in U. S. history a former president has been found guilty of a felony after serving his term as president.
Queens man convicted: The jury’s verdict, which came after only two days of deliberations, makes Trump the first president from Queens – or anywhere in the United States, for that matter – to become a felon.
PD Shaw: I do find it incredibly weird that New York doesn’t allow the jury instructions to be taken into the deliberation room. This seems to be based on the highest court’s ruling that doing so would constitute reversible error.
In New York, the judge’s verbal jury instructions are the actual jury instructions, not the written copy. In New York, the jury cannot be provided a copy of the jury instructions without consent of the parties. That’s because the jury instructions include “copies of the text of any statute”. See New York Criminal Procedure Law § 310.30.
steve: However, the judges instructions to the jury about 3 choices of which law was broken might make it reversible.
The conviction was for New York Penal Law § 175.10, falsifying business records. The *predicate* crime was New York Election Law § 17.152, conspiring to promote an election through “unlawful means”. The *means* of breaking § 17.152 might vary, just as a jury might disagree on the weapon used to murder someone, but agree the defendant murdered the person.
jan: Cohen testified that Trump didn’t know about the payments.
Cohen testified that Trump directly authorized him to pay off Daniels, Trump telling him “to meet {Chief Financial Officer} Allen Weisselberg and figure this whole thing out.” Cohen recorded audio of him and Trump discussing the payout. And Trump signed the checks.
Costello, refuted much of Cohen’s testimony, during the narrowed down ability given to him by Merchan to do so. An expert from the FEC was also awaiting to be called, defining the scope of the federal rules, but he was rejected by Merchan to even be heard by the jury, as his testimony was too damning for the prosecution.
A sham is a sham, no matter how much it’s rationalized by those hating Trump. This trial shamed our legal system far more than it damaged it’s target —-> Trump.
jan: Costello, refuted much of Cohen’s testimony
Costello offered to be Cohen’s attorney *before* Cohen decided to come clean. Cohen emailed Cohen, “Sleep well tonight. you have friends in high places,” and “some very positive comments about you from the White House.”
jan: An expert from the FEC was also awaiting to be called, defining the scope of the federal rules, but he was rejected by Merchan to even be heard by the jury, as his testimony was too damning for the prosecution.
As noted on another thread, explanations of the law are not evidence, and therefore, they are not admissible as such.