The editors of the Washington Post are worried that violence may break out over “Trump’s lies” about the election:
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S lying about the election has become dangerous — and not just in the sense that it damages democratic norms. It also increasingly threatens to spur physical violence against Americans who have done their duty to oversee a free and fair vote.
Officials in Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Kentucky, Minnesota, Vermont and Wisconsin have reported receiving threats or harassment. The Arizona Republican Party asked its Twitter followers Tuesday if they were willing to give their lives to overturn the election and “die for something.â€
Armed “protesters†menaced Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson (D) and her family in their home over the weekend. “Someone’s going to get killed,†said Gabriel Sterling, a senior Georgia election official, as he detailed last week the death threats he and others have received. Yet, Mr. Trump continues to pour gasoline on the fire, tweeting Wednesday that “We will soon be learning about the word ‘courage’, and saving our Country.†Kim Ward, the majority leader of the Pennsylvania state Senate, told the New York Times that if she refused to cooperate with efforts to challenge the election result, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.â€
I’ve been warning about the potential for violence for some time and I don’t think it’s just over Trump’s lies although, obviously, his claims whether lies, exaggerations, misconceptions, or whatever aren’t helping. I have been steadfast and consistent in my view. I said days after the election that unless the Trump campaign were able to produce evidence that would stand up in court it was over and Trump lost. They have been unable to do so.
It’s a bit late to be complaining about norms. Al Gore didn’t concede the 2000 election until December 13. I thought that Gore-Lieberman was wrong to take the election to court in 2000 and I think that Trump-Pence is wrong now. Hillary Clinton has never retracted her claim that Donald Trump was an illegitimate president. It’s time for the president and his supporters to stand down and accept defeat. It’s also time for Joe Biden and his supporters to be gracious in victory.
Gore lost by 500 votes. Recounts at that level is much different than claiming millions of fraudulent votes. This is not even on the same planet. False equivalence. (Votes with such a small difference have been reversed. Never has happened with the differences seen in this last election.)
Steve
You yourself, Dave have confirmed that you suspect election cheating in large, Democrat controlled cities. It’s common knowledge. Enough of that, coordinated or not, can swing a national election.
But it’s true that the burden of proof is on the accuser, and time runs short.
If it’s the consensus of Republican party political operatives that cheating is rampant they need to ramp up their own clandestine maneuvers or be left in the dust.
It may be that “catch me if you can” efforts will become commonplace in American elections.
We should aim for national standardized electronic voting using secure blockchain technology as is used in financial transactions.
If we can’t trust the system things could get rough.
I think the norm was that if are found to have lost you don’t take the finding to court and you concede. That, for example, is what Nixon did in 1960 and he probably believed that he had actually won and, indeed, had probably won.
What do you think the norm is? You challenge the election in court if you think you actually won? To think that’s not what Trump is doing you’d need to think he believes he lost.
There is no such thing as an unhackable system. Blockchain has been hacked.
I think Trump believes he won, but the burden of proof is still on him.
The norm may be to concede, but Trump has been on defense since he was elected, he sees enemies all around , and he’s not wrong about that.
Whether polling place fraud was enough to swing the election, I can’t know, but it exists. And the stakes were high.
Blockchain, as you say is not impenetrable, but isn’t it an improvement?
Some say improvement is lowering the voting age to 16, voting no doubt supervised by teachers union reps and tenured college profs. There’s no angle there, just trying to improve democracy and the march to a one party system.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/434115-pelosi-says-she-backs-lowering-voting-age-to-16
I think the norm is that for all elections, not just presidential, if you lose by a couple of hundred and there is some chance a recount could change things it is OK to challenge. Rare but it happens. When there is no chance a recount changes things then you concede.
Who knows what Trump believes? I suspect he knows but is using this for fundraising. Looks to be working bigly. I dont know why any of us should take it seriously.
Steve
For those in denial about planned, coordinated and systemic fraud…
In neighboring Georgia Democrats immediately began running ads on the radio (and mailing northern Florida residents) encouraging people to “move” to Georgia for the Senate runoff (move at least for a month – snicker) for the sole purpose of voting. Pretty blatant and in your face; thank you Stacey Abrahms. This is a felony punishable by up to ten years and a $100k in fines. Andrew Yang (remember him?) was even offering to cover the rent. Apparently somebody whispered in peoples ears about the illegality, as if they didn’t know. Haven’t heard an ad in a couple weeks.
Pure fraud. Pure brazen fraud.
BTW – the number of illegal ballots cast in GA presidential is now estimated at well over 100,000. Underage, dead and non-resident being the biggest three categories. In addition, no chain of possession available for appx 500,000 drop box ballots. (73/23 for Biden) A drop box scheme passed w/o legislative approval and a scheme cooked up by Obama’s David Plough.
Fraud? Nah.
So much fraud that it ought to be easy to find a couple of actual examples right? LOLOLOLOLOLOL! You guys are pathetic.
Steve
Examples.
“no chain of possession available for appx 500,000 drop box ballots. (73/23 for Biden) “
500,000 examples of possible fraud. Can’t be proven or disproven by design.
AND, now that the voting is over,
we learn that there’s a federal tax investigation regarding the Biden family and Chinese money.
We’ve had months of organized, government approved leftist street violence from the likes of BML/Antifa in numerous cities. The possibility that they will be engaged by right wing street gangs is appalling. Weimar redux. If it does happen, Biden will use the violence to institute a socialist dictatorship. The generals and admirals will happily go along if he promises them some goodies, like a new war they can play at. Viz. Johnson and Vietnam.
Limbaugh thinks we are headed for secession. Perhaps, but it won’t be peaceful. The only peaceful secession in history was the Czech Republic/Slovakia separation. But in that case there were two ethnic groups already living in well-defined territories, so few people suffered any loss or inconvenience. The Indian/Pakistani partition involved the forced transfer of over 10 million people, and hundreds of thousands were killed in the ensuing rioting.
Secession won’t happen. A large fraction or majority of middle aged and young adults have been brainwashed into socialism by the public schools, universities, media, and, ironically, churches. They will support an Anglophone/EU style socialism, with hate and speech censorship laws, government control of the media (as if it is needed), socialized medicine (the worst version, the UK NHS, not the best, German), detailed regulation of the minutiae of every corporation (public and private), continuous surveillance (even at home), draconian gun regulation or even confiscation, imposition of all the lunacies of the Green Economy… The result will be a slow economic collapse.
But, “People get the government they deserve.” (Joseph de Maistre)
Trump lost the election (Period).
But like a few of you posting today and millions more in the country, Trump will continue to do what he has been doing for years, he will continue to feed your minds with more lies, more crap, more dishonesty. No need to worry, he will be around for a long time to come. He will continue to pull the puppet strings and so many of you will continue to dance which ever way he chooses. you shouldn’t fret so much, he’s here to stay, that genie was released from the bottle. Silence from our republican leaders, yes, but they are getting what they have wanted for a long time, a drowning like none could have ever imagined. Happy Friday.