In comments a frequent commenter pointed to an opinion piece in The Telegraph harshly critical of President Biden’s handling of U. S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. It isn’t just the British Tories who been shaken by events in Afghanistan. From a round-up of “expert” opinion in The Guardian:
It may be tempting to dismiss this as an unfortunate but understandable logistical failure. If only. Optics matter. Narratives matter. Is this how America treats its friends and allies when it grows tired of them? This is the question on minds of officials in foreign capitals everywhere. As Politico Europe reported, “Even those who cheered Biden’s election and believed he could ease the recent tensions in the transatlantic relationship said they regarded the withdrawal from Afghanistan as nothing short of a mistake of historic magnitude.†Even if this isn’t how European officials and others should interpret Biden’s nonchalance, they are perceiving it nonetheless. And perceptions – or misperceptions – have a way of creating new, darker realities.
Le Monde
The editors of Le Monde are more sympathetic. After outlining how things came to this point (their views are pretty consistent with mine—they think the U. S. erred in occupying Afghanistan) the remark:
Même si la décision américaine peut être considérée comme légitime, un parallèle est donc à craindre, que M. Biden a vécu comme vice-président de M. Obama. Après le retrait américain d’Irak en 2011, le mouvement djihadiste irakien a regagné une telle vigueur qu’il a fallu réengager des troupes quelques années plus tard pour combattre l’organisation Etat islamique. Nul doute que M. Biden a ce précédent à l’esprit et que, au-delà de la déroute spectaculaire des alliés afghans de Washington, il doit prier pour ne pas avoir à renvoyer des soldats en Afghanistan, dans quelques mois ou quelques années, pour y combattre une nouvelle génération de djihadistes internationaux.
the gist of which is that they’re worried about the run-on effects of the chaotic American withdrawal. Will it encourage Islamists terrorists beyond Afghanistan’s borders?
Deutsche Welle
A recent editorial in Al-Alam, an Iranian-owned Arabic-language publication, warned people not to trust the Americans the way the Afghan people did.
The people of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Libya “link the fate of their countries and their people with America and believe this will open a new door, through which they will enter into a bright and brilliant future. That’s what the Afghans, who were deceived for 20 years, had drummed into them too,” the editorial argued.
Although it’s written in Arabic, Al Alam is actually published by the Iranian state — so perhaps it’s not surprising they condemned this week’s messy US withdrawal from Afghanistan so harshly. Iran has long had an adversarial relationship with the US.
But the Iranians are not the only ones in the Middle East talking this way about what is happening in Afghanistan as the Islamist militant Taliban group take over.
If you think you detect a theme emerging in the commentary from our NATO allies, you’re right: they’re worried about themselves.
Corriere della Serra
For Europeans, the situation is difficult. The American umbrella we have always counted on is now full of holes and there is, at the moment, no spare umbrella . The gap between the two liberal societies, the European and the American, is as strong now as in Trump’s time: Biden made his choices for internal political reasons without worrying about the negative repercussions on Europe. Which, of course, will help fuel European anti-Americanism. This could, in the near future, restore momentum and consensus to forces with illiberal traits that, in various European countries, appeared, just a few weeks ago, to be downsized.
One of the things I notice in all of the commentary was a repetition of what I think is a Western conceit—that the Taliban does not enjoy consider popularity among Afghans, especially Afghan women. I think they’re projecting they’re own preferences on others, a sort of cultural colonialism. I think quite to the contrary that at the very least a significant portion of the Afghan people including women have always supported the Taliban if only because they’re Afghans.
If I get a few spare moments I’ll synopsize Russian opinion for you.
So, all of you who thought Trump was not qualified to be president are not happy with the racist pedophile you (we) helped elect. It is called “buyer’s remorse”.
If you did not vote for Trump, you helped elect Biden. Since I did not vote, I am in that group, but I have no regrets. President Biden’s incompetence will drive a stake into the heart of progressivism for another 100 years.
This was not that difficult. Evacuate civilians. Close airbase. Withdraw troops. Shitshow. Afghan government & military collapse. Taliban rule. Taliban fuck-up. Taliban get bombed.
When a soldier with a dick is called “she”, getting the withdrawal right might not be the most important priority.
Tell us what you really think, Tasty.
But seriously, I’m still where I’ve been for a number of days now.
1. The policy decision to get out was correct, and something others couldn’t pull the trigger on. Plus 1.
2. Yes, a withdrawal was always going to have logistical problems. But the planning and execution have perhaps been the biggest display of incompetence I’ve seen in my adult life. It doesn’t seem to have been nearly as difficult for the British and French to get their people out.
3. Biden, State and the Pentagon are either clueless, hopelessly arrogant or bald faced liars. The constant revisions, inconsistent positions and misrepresentations have been nothing short of breathtaking. Anthony Blinken on TV today saying he was unaware of foreign criticism – and, rather, hearing robust praise – is beyond the pale. Maybe they are counting on the disinterested or the steve’s of the world with “what, me worry” attitudes.
4. Its clearly getting worse, despite assertions to the contrary. The eyewitness accounts leave Biden and company in Groucho Marx territory – “who you gonna believe, me or your lyin’ eyes/ears.” Yet they (actually Biden, or should I say Susan Rice) seem as stubborn as ever.
In times like these it would be nice if people could unite behind the national leaders. But the raw incompetence and lack of veracity make it very, very difficult. It goes beyond this event. The FBI, Congress, CIA, NSA, CDC. Who trusts these institutions now?
@Drew
I agree with all your points, but I have become tired of the bullshit. The problem with uniting behind the national leaders is that they are beyond incompetent. Most of them are complete idiots, and they have a religious fanaticism about every one of their hysterical beliefs.
I do not blame President Biden for the Afghan military or government collapse and the Taliban take-over. Those were baked-in no matter who was running the show, and I will defend his decision.
The shit-show we are watching is due to people who are “worrying about the wrong thing”.
I suppose the withdrawal was always going to be a disaster. We’re lucky the Taliban decided to let us screw it up on our own without their input. The Mt Suribachi (?) parody was a nice touch. With our own uniforms even.
But the real disaster was the failure to consult with or even notify our NATO allies that we were bugging out. The harm done to the Western alliance system is immense. And the consequences will drag on for years. I can’t right now think of a greater, more valuable gift to Russia and China.
The GWOT was a real gift to them also, but this fiasco is even greater and revelatory of just how far the rot in America has progressed.
It starts:
One of the US’ most wanted has reappeared in Kabul as Taliban leaders gather to map out the future. Al-Qaeda terrorist Khalil Haqqani pledged a new era for Afghanistan as he was seen leading prayers for Taliban fighters at a mosque in the Afghan capital in front of adoring fans.
Tasty –
I think the argument for staying in Afghanistan rested on three issues:
1. The AG will go back to being a breeding and training ground for newly emboldened terrorists, with no deterrent now in sight.
2. China and Russia can now capitalize on the void. First China can plunder natural resources. And both countries can leverage the notion that the US is a fair weather friend.
3. I’ll let others debate the point. But undergirding the stay argument is the notion that the Afghans were really doing the fighting now. We were supplying air power and tech/intelligence support. Shorter: the cost benefit was worth it. Further, that the Afghan army would not have collapsed had not the US pulled the rug out from under them.
Which brings me to a final point, and the subject of Dave’s post – foreign reaction. Our allies must be questioning us now. Maybe that’s good, for they were not pulling their weight and need to rethink their positions. That all said, the sight of the US President trashing the Afghans – what is it, 50,000 dead? – was a national disgrace. An absolute disgrace. The buck stops here my ass. That was in fact noted in Parliament as well.
Our withdrawal from Viet Nam did not go well. we heard the same things about how we failed, were weak, couldnt be trusted etc. Didnt happen. There isnt anyone involve with Afghanistan who didnt know we were not going to succeed in turning the place into a stable, self governing country run along Western ideals. Whenever we left chaos was going to ensue and the Taliban or some successor would take over.
I think the collapse would have begun as soon as the Afghan govt leaders started to see US citizens being evacuated. They would have left so they wouldn’t have to face the Taliban, just like they did. That said, I have not seen much coverage on the Americans who are there. The announced departure date for US troops had been in May until Biden moved it back. Why would any US citizens, other than some embassy people, have stayed?
Steve
I think the world is pretty much laughing @ the U.S. Our prowess as a nation has been challenged, and we whimpered and fled in the dark of night. 20 years of fighting, under oftentimes exasperating rules of engagement, lost lives, tore apart bodies, and now veterans are rightly asking, “What was it all for?â€
It is said the last war we decisively won was WWII. Since then, war has become a mixed bag of unattainable goals and contradictory commands. That’s why the General Patton audio clip, played at the Trump event in Alabama last night, reflected, appropriately, a more hardened military spirit to win, not languish, when fighting for something worthwhile. These last wars, from at least Viet Nam forward, lacked such commitment, focus, and zeal to get it over with and move on.
As for Afghanistan, there was no real satisfactory endpoint in sight. What was good, though, was that no service men/women had been killed in the last 18 months. The country itself was being managed by a very small contingency of troops. There was a more pragmatic plan in place to deal with transitioning out of the country, with safeguards arranged and the strategic Bagram Air force base kept for safer evacuations and future use, being it was the only one close to China’s border (400 miles). Whatever considerations that had been carefully devised by the last administration, however, were ditched by Biden in favor of knee-jerk maneuvers that didn’t even keep allies, the Afghan commanders, or Americans living in Afghanistan in the loop of their last minute thinking. Consequently, the loss of respect and trust for this country is, IMO, not only inexcusable but difficult to reestablish any time soon. And, we owe such a loss to Biden and those higher-ups in his administration.
The British reaction is weird; they withdrew under PM Cameron almost ten years ago, leaving a rump force as part of NATO’s non-combat mission. There does not appear to have been any reach-out to the Trump administration regarding U.S. withdrawal agreement, which included all its allied forces. The Johnson administration does not appear to have reached out to Biden subsequently. This did not seem controversial or surprising.
It’s all internal politics. Its about Labour criticizing the withdrawal as a means of criticizing the competency of the Tory government (and their purported alienation from Biden) without appearing to embrace Blairism. It’s about internal divisions among the Tories, led by former PM May (who did not change UK policy notably during her premiership), that want to retain an internationalist political agenda in the face of Brexit. The UK might be keeping its spending minimal commitments to NATO, but appears to have lost military capacity it had twenty years ago.
Unnamed UK minister: ‘The US had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the First World War. They turned up late for the Second World War and now they are cutting and running in Afghanistan.’
With respect to WW I (my grandfather’s war), American participation was a fundamental mistake that set in motion most of the other wars in the 20th Century, most certainly WW II, Korea and Viet Nam. WWI was a war between empires for national aggrandizement. It had nothing to do with liberty or democracy or human rights.
The UK minister can “stuff it” as they say.
It did have the benefit that it wrecked all the empires that fought it.
PD:
I don’t believe that the UK military is at Level 1 readiness. IMO the only forces in the world that are are the U. S., France, Russia, and China and France is teetering. If we don’t start doing some needed upgrades and maintenance we’ll be teetering, too.
Andy could probably talk about this more intelligently than I.
@Drew
I understand all that. I disagree, but that is a different issue. I am addressing people (foreign and domestic) who are astonished to learn that a senile, racist pediphile is an incompetent fool.
Other than the level of incompetence, are you surprised? Would you hire him or any of his appointees to run the copy machine in one of your companies?
When he becomes a liability, the Democrats will suddenly discover that he is a senile, racist pedophile. Ask former Gov. Andrew Cuomo what happens when you are no longer useful.
So, Tasty, will this “senile, racist, pediphile†be replaced by a cackling, vile witch?
“I disagree, but that is a different issue.”
I know. I’m not advocating it. Its just the case that is made.
“Other than the level of incompetence, are you surprised?”
Why yes I am. Given the story he told during the campaign, and the unquestioning sycophancy of the press – so the story must have been dispositive – I figured that anyone who could dispatch of Cornpop so easily must be the man to deal with the Taliban.
OK, the mushrooms have worn off now.
“Would you hire him or any of his appointees to run the copy machine in one of your companies?”
Let’s see, the assembly line would be elder abuse. The copy machine. Potentially. But then again, if the copier had a paper jam he might announce the buck stops with him……..while blaming the former copy guy, the paper, smashing that dog faced pony soldier copier……….
I wouldn’t let Joe Biden near any position of leadership or executive acumen. Its why I think Governors are better choices than senators. Let’s face it. Joe was the only guy they could come up with. That’s sad commentary. Now we suffer the results.
So I see Joe just turned and ran off from the podium in his little speech. Must have been fully taxed chewing gum.
@Drew
A lot of the resistance to leaving Afghanistan was due to money. A lot of people were making a lot of money from the US occupying Afghanistan. This is beyond military spending, and the total amount is much higher than cited.
With the amount of money pissed away, we could have bought off the country for several generations.
CO2 hysteria, COVID hysteria, Trump hysteria, and Fill-in-the-Blank hysteria are all money driven.
@jan
I am not going to touch that, but I doubt she has enough sense to be a witch.
I would say babbling, vile lair, and as with the doddering fool, it is all well documented. Babbling – she cannot string together two sentences, coherently. Vile – she hid exculpatory evidence as CA Attorney General, and liar – she did not smoke dope while listening to Snoop before he began recording.
It might be hard to do, but the quickest way to end progressivism is to let progressives run wild. If you do not get in their way, progressives will eat their own. (The US can recover quicker than you might think.)
Biden is a front man, but it’s possible that there are things we don’t know.
Remember when we pulled most of our forces out of West Germany in 1991?
They were needed elsewhere.
Maybe Biden plans to send troops to Taiwan. It’s the least we could do.
Gray, our troops will be needed elsewhere after the tyrants of the world see how juvenile our tenacity is to safeguard our allies.
We think that the world has changed, but it hasn’t, and human nature cannot. There is no such thing as an humane war, and the attempts to practice that has led to our defeats ever since 1945, or perhaps 1952.
Imagine an an Allied force in Germany in 1945 missioned to eliminate Nazi elements and encourage more moderate German leaders to “work with us to build a more Democratic and equitable German society”.
We’d still be at it.
@Grey Shambler
WW2 was a response to a direct attack on the US by Japan, and the subsequent declaration of war by Germany.
The US diverted resources, manufacturing, and personnel towards total victory, and Americans accepted rationing, shortages, and casualties as the cost to achieve that end. I doubt that even the neo-cons would sacrifice their iPhones to “bring democracy to the world” or for the “fight against global terrorism”.
Most of the military actions after WW2 have been to fight an ideology. They have been like religious wars, and total victory includes genocide of the non-believers. If the mind will not surrender, the body must be destroyed.
Korea was a civil war, and Vietnam was a civil war that began as an overthrow of the colonial government. As noted by @bob sykes, WW1 was a war between empires. The First Gulf War was to enforce Westphalian sovereignty. Unfortunately, the lesson was that a very small number of military personnel could do anything.
Maybe the way I see it is that Germany was a threat to the sovereignty of Great Britain, an actual mortal threat.
With our lumbering overconfidence we go to war too easily, expecting easy victories, we start small, when it doesn’t work we ratchet it up, and the enemy responds in kind until we find ourselves in a situation we are not willing to make actual sacrifices to dominate.
This makes a lot of money for certain interests, but does our nation no good at all.
All war should be declared such by congress. We are losing face, respect.