Science, Experience, and Hope

I agree with the general thrust of the Washington Post’s latest editorial. Reopening the economy will be an enormous task:

Tom Frieden, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has usefully outlined four tasks. First, wide-scale testing must be deployed to know who is sick and who is not. Second, those infected must be isolated from the healthy and susceptible. Third, everyone who had been in contact with the sick must be traced. Fourth, those contacts have to be isolated to prevent further spread. All four have to be accomplished to box in the virus, he says.

Where I differ from them is more in this paragraph:

Unfortunately, there are stubborn, unresolved problems with all four. It will be catastrophic if the next phase unfolds with the kind of chaotic supply shortages and lack of leadership we have seen over the past few months. Diagnostic tests, to see whether people are sick, have been running at about 140,000 a day reported by the states, only a fraction of what is needed for phase two. Serological testing, to see who has recovered with antibodies that might confer immunity from reinfection, has never been done at this scale. Many tests are in the works, but technical and biomedical uncertainty remain, including regarding how long the antibodies last and how strongly they may protect. Former Food and Drug Administration commissioner Scott Gottlieb and former FDA chief of staff Lauren Silvis have suggested that employers ought to take on some of the burden for testing, bringing it into workplaces, making it more routine and widespread.

Rather than the universal testing that they seem to imagine I have been advocating a well-designed, systematic system of sampling. Much depends on what level of certainty and risk you require. If you require 100% certainty and 0% risk, we will never reopen the economy, at least not until a vaccine and treatments are found for SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. At some point the food supply chain will break down and we will have much, much more serious problems than hospitals strained beyond their capacity. There will never be a large enough supply of tests and their precursors, enough compliance with directives, or enough people to trace contacts for the entire human population many times over which is what such certainty and risk avoidance would require.

Once you decide you’ve willing to settle for something less than 100% certainty and 0% risk, the matter becomes a political issue rather than a technical one.

Science tells us that we may be able to develop an effective vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. Experience tells us that either we will not or that it is likely to take a long time to do so, longer than we have. Hope tells us that we will.

I think we would be prudent to rely on experience but different people take that to mean different things. I guess that’s why I have been harping so much on the slow pace of recoveries and finding a treatment more effective than supportive care.

10 comments… add one
  • CuriousOnlooker Link

    The question is timing.

    For Ebola, they created drugs based on the antibodies from the blood of survivors. The drugs can cut the mortality rate by up to 50%.

    A similar approach; convalescent plasma, was effective in 1918.

    With Ebola, it took 6 months to develop the drug. Then 4 years to complete clinical trials.

    I think it is realistic drugs will be ready for clinical trials by the fall and if there still a big outbreak then, to finish the trials by the end of the year.

  • PD Shaw Link

    There seems to be a failure from top to bottom to think or speak probablisticly about these things.

    From the top, its things like that piece from the National Academy of Sciences on seasonality — they clearly don’t trust the people to make informed decisions, so they write offhand garbage summer climates on opposite sides of the equator. I think we know that respiratory illnesses typically have some seasonality; its not clear we know why, but if we are looking for small advantages (or disadvantages given seasons change), we might as well think about them. Maybe people should get outside more, be less dependent on the A/C or maybe improve the HVAC.

    On the other hand, someone is circulating a rumor about black immunity, which even the President of the Nation-State of California has had to squelch. I don’t know the exact rumor, but it sounded like something I mused about given blacks tends to have Type O blood, which early studies indicated were less likely to contract the virus. Do the scientists have a point?

    There are a lot of scarcity issues in play, even with universal testing, because we have to figure out where to apply our resources the most effectively. My wife gets her temperature scanned every morning before she is allowed to enter her workplace. What is the efficacy of that?

  • I think it is realistic drugs will be ready for clinical trials by the fall and if there still a big outbreak then, to finish the trials by the end of the year.

    If there are still “shelter in place” directives in place at the end of the year at the present scale, that will probably be reassuring to the survivors huddling in the smoldering ruins of the cities.

  • PD Shaw Link

    According to “Factors associated with hospitalization and critical illness among 4,103 patients with COVID-19 disease in New York City”:

    Outside of age, a BMI >30 appears to be the most important risk factor for hospitalization when infected, more so than any of the pre-existing conditions they listed, other than perhaps heart failure, which has about the same risk as BMI 30 – 40.

    Smoking was an indicator of better outcomes. It doesn’t break out past vs. current use though. Who lies about smoking? Or is there something in nicotine which is retarding some aspect of the virus?

    African-Americans have better outcomes than whites, who have better outcomes than Asian-Americans all other factors kept the same. These seem to be significant, but nowhere near as significant as obesity.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20057794v1

  • That is a VERY interesting paper, PD, but I’m having difficulty relating the results they’re reporting to other reports. The number of blacks hospitalized is roughly proportional to their number in the NYC population. Lower, if anything. Either their results are different from those being reported elsewhere or we need to be looking at a movie rather than still shots.

  • steve Link

    A lot of those numbers are different than seen elsewhere. Almost 50% being admitted is high, as is the death rate I think. One of the problems is that it takes these pts a long time to die. Makes numbers like these which are just a snapshot in time hard to analyze.

    Steve

  • PD Shaw Link

    Dave, it looks to me like Chicago is disproportionately testing for the virus in the South and West areas of the City.

    https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/sites/covid/reports/2020-04-13/2020.04.13_COVID-19_Zipcode_RateTesting.pdf

    If the City has decided to actively seek out and test blacks due to concerns about disparate impacts, then you’ll find more blacks infected. I assume the NYU health system is probably only testing those coming to them with symptoms.

  • PD Shaw Link

    To clarify: I recall looking at the numbers 7-10 days ago and black infection rates were roughly proportionate to the Chicago population (around 31%); today they represent 50% of the cases. The death rate was high, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there was increased testing as a means of trying to address that.

  • I’ve been complaining about that for some time. It’s why I can’t help but wonder if testing the entire population is counter-productive.

    Iceland has tested 10% of its people. They’ve found that something between .3% and .8% are infected and half of those infected are asymptomatic.

    Assume arguendo that those numbers hold true here. It’s probably even higher here because we’re more tied into the world economy than Iceland is. That would mean that between 1 million and 3 million people here have COVID-19 and half of them are asymptomatic. What does that do other than to sow panic?

  • steve Link

    We should have random testing to find out what percentage have been infected. Would let us know how much of the population is still at risk. It also helps us learn more about the virus. If we find that two populations have equal infection rates but one has much higher hospitalization or death rates it gives us something to study. If one population has higher death rates but it is just the result of higher infection rate then you have a different problem.

    Steve

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