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The picture on the left is of Jewish refugees from Europe in the 1930s. The picture on the right is of people in the “caravan” from Guatemala today.
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The picture on the left is of Jewish refugees from Europe in the 1930s. The picture on the right is of people in the “caravan” from Guatemala today.
The Jewish refugees had better hats. Is there more we are supposed to get from this?
I don’t see the left image – it shows as a tripod.com hosting image.
Better now?
Huddled masses versus walking masses????
Better now, thanks!
My take on the Hondurans is that they seem well fed, well enough dressed, based on interviews, some are fairly well educated. They are fleeing violence they say. But is it true that they can find personal security through flight? If true, shouldn’t everyone do that?
Reports say the caravan was initially started in one Honduran village through a facebook post that went viral. Passed with help through Guatemala, faced sporadic police resistance at the southern Mexican border. Passed that, reformed, and doubled in number, adding in I suppose, Mexican citizens. If they succeed, what do you expect will be next? Look, if anyone here supports totally open borders, as Mexico does not, then you support slavery, because when there are enough central Americans here with nothing to do, and nothing to eat, I’m gonna get me and the wife a cheap housekeeper.
Given American foreign policy towards Honduras (or Guatemala, El Salvador, or Nicaragua) anyone leaving deserves a spot here. But the other point should be in that in 1940 or so, insane anti-semitism was rampant in America and the picture looked entirely different. To steal from Mark Twain “When I was 14, my father was so ignorant I couldn’t stand him. But when I got to be 21, it was amazing how much he had learned in seven years.”
They must make damned good strollers in Central America. And hearty trail mix. Because walking from there to the US is like walking from NY to CA.
I used to provide threat/travel briefs a couple times a year military and other government personnel going to Honduras to participate in exercises. It is an extremely violent country where large parts are de facto governed by third parties (“gangs” doesn’t really describe them accurately). The physical security for our personnel there rival what’s seen in ME countries like KSA – housing in compounds with armed guards, transportation on armored busses with armed vehicle escort.
So it’s not at all surprising so many are fleeing. I’m not sure what the US can do, though. Honduras’ problems are rooted in poor governance and a divided society – that’s not something any outside power can fix.
“They must make damned good strollers in Central America. And hearty trail mix.”
They are, but nothing compares to one Somali I read about in an official report several years ago. He basically walked and hitchhiked from Somalia to South Africa, managed to get passage to Brazil and then slowly made his way to the US border by walking and through human trafficking networks. It took about 18 months, but a lot of that time was spent detained by local governments. Once they determined he was really heading to the US and didn’t intend to stay in their country, they let him go and sent him on his way.
This is a ridiculous comparison, and I’m surprised it appeared here in an otherwise sensible place. Here are a few differences, just for starters:
1) The Jews were fleeing actual genocide and a complete loss of income since most had been legally deprived of their jobs by the Nazis, as well as their legal and civil rights. And they were literally hounded out of Germany. None of that is true of these new ‘refugees.’
2) Most of the Jews were educated and law abiding citizens who would have been productive members of society once they learned English and settled in a bit. They didn’t migrate expecting generous social welfare benefits. Some of the handful of Jewish refugees Roosevelt allowed in were directly responsible for America getting the A-Bomb and ending WWII victorious, with a reduced loss of life.
3) The Jews were NOT refugees by choice. And since there was essentially no welfare state then and the Nazis demanded everything they owned but the clothes on their backs for an exit visa, they weren’t migrating expecting freebies. That isn’t true of much of the current batch of ‘refugees,’ many of whom are simply economic migrants. Also, the Jews asked for refuge legally. They didn’t have a backer like George Soros financing a ‘caravan’ for political purposes.
4) One thing in common the two groups have is that neither needed to be refugees. According to the 1922 San Remo Accords between The League of Nations and Britain, the Palestine Mandate was split into two states, Trans-Jordan for the Arabs on 78% of Palestine and the Jewish state of 22% with the River Jordan as the border. According to the agreement, Jews were to be allowed to settle in all land west of the Jordan River, and a number of them did. The Arabs got their state, but the Jewish one was ‘delayed.’ And in 1939, Britain anti-semitic PM Neville Chamberlain illegally closed of ALL Jewish migration to Palestine with the so-called ‘White Paper’ that doomed thousands of Jews to a horrific death at the time when they most needed a refuge. Those Jews could have easily gone to Palestine even if the U.S. and European countries wouldn’t allow them in.
This current crop of ‘refugees’ could easily migrate to Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, Salvador, Guatemala, even Mexico to some extent and had a perfectly safe haven. They’re coming to America because they been organized and paid to provide a political issue before the midterms and because of the social welfare benefits.
There are a lot more differences, but those ought to be enough for now.
I think you’re interpreting my juxtaposition wrong, Rob.
I think that the two pictures have some pretty dramatic differences, some mentioned in the discussion.
IMO the Jewish refugees look like refugees. The Honduran/Guatemalan refugees look like job applicants. They are younger, healthier, better dressed, don’t look scared, and have a much higher percentage of men.
And, of course, as I’ve pointed out before, when they enter Mexico they might be refugees, but when they go from Mexico to the United States they’re economic migrants.
I suppose it needs not be said of the caravan, because everyone knows, but it’s all a matter of precedent. Lincoln, Ne. alone could absorb 7000 migrants from wherever, Guatemala, Mexico, but if this challenge is not met and defeated, it will become legend, and numerous groups will be formed through social media. I understand they fear living under governments that do not have a monopoly on force, as they should. But,,,, dammit, Guatemalans, Man Up!
Maybe I’ve been here too long. I knew exactly where you were going.