The editors of the Washington Post are strongly in favor of a piece of legislation making its way through Congress:
Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) have been laboring for months to overhaul the country’s arcane system of counting and certifying votes for president and vice president. Finally, they’ve released a product — and it’s a fine one. Their bill not only guards against the gambits the lame duck White House attempted in 2020, but it also limits the potential for other nefariousness by a future candidate. A companion bill addresses the security of election workers and the U.S. Postal Service and reauthorizes the Election Assistance Commission.
The Electoral Count Act as it stands is full of ambiguities. According to one scholarly study, the losing party in nine of the past 34 presidential elections could have exploited gaping holes in the law to overrule the people’s decision. So far, enough has stood in the way — sometimes a general respect for norms, sometimes particular political courage — to prevent disaster. But the events following the 2020 election, including the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, made clear that the danger of a constitutional coup is real, and growing.
The bill introduced this week would create blocks against the specific maneuvers Mr. Trump attempted. It would clarify that the vice president’s role in certifying electoral votes is “solely ministerialâ€; that speaks to the former president’s efforts to coerce Vice President Mike Pence — with the help of a mob — into rejecting the votes of several states. It would raise the threshold for Congress to challenge a state’s submitted results from a single member of both chambers to at least one-fifth of members; that answers last year’s frivolous objections from six GOP senators and more than 100 representatives.
Perhaps most important are changes that would impede state-level mischief. By identifying governors as responsible for submitting a slate of electors, appointed according to rules in place before Election Day, the legislation would exclude competing lists from other officials. Better yet is a process to counter a rogue governor who lodges an illegitimate submission for approval by a friendly House or Senate. Under the reformed act, any such attempt could be challenged by a vice-presidential or presidential candidate in federal courts, to whose judgment Congress would be bound. Finally, the bill would ensure that state legislatures can’t simply override the popular vote by calling it a “failed election.â€
The Electoral Count Reform Act will not fix everything, because it can’t fix everything: Some additional protections can be provided only by the states; others, including enhancements to the Voting Rights Act desired by Democrats, aren’t politically possible.
IMO, presuming it meets constitutional muster, that’s a good start but it’s no more than a start. As much attention needs to be devoted to restoring confidence in the integrity of elections as to preventing coups. I think that means that a number of the reforms imposed after the 2000 presidential election need to be reversed or, at least, constrained. For example, there should be an election day as prescribed by statute rather than an election period that varies from state to state.
” devoted to restoring confidence in the integrity of elections as to preventing coups.”
You cant. Since the Bush days the GOP has been claiming they lose because of fraudulent votes. They have been looking since then with multiple state and national commissions and haven’t found anything. In a rational world that would be accepted as proof there isn’t anything to find, but that is not our world. The GOP decided long ago that if they lose the vote must have been fraudulent. Methods dont matter, just results.
Steve
From the descriptions I’ve read, the law should have been passed last year. If one thinks that all that stood btw/ Democracy and a coup was the moral fiber of the sitting vice-president, why wasn’t that the first bill passed? I know the answer, the Democrats have a wish list that always seems to exceed their grasp.
steve: Since the Bush days the GOP has been claiming they lose because of fraudulent votes.
Heh. The good ol’ days of the Brooks Brothers Riot.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHfsydkXoAEigf6?format=jpg
Scanning through the text of the Constitution, one gets the following tidbits:
Art. I, Sect. 3–The Vice President shall be President of the Senate.
Art. II, Sect. 1–Congress determines the time and date for the Electors to vote. The States determine how the Electors are chosen. The Electors that are chosen, vote on the specified day, and they report to the President of the Senate (i.e., VP). The Electors themselves sign and certify the ballots. Ballots are opened and counted in presence of whole Senate and House.
There is no statement about certification of the original ballots by anyone other than the Electors, themselves, or even of the count in the joint session. Presumably, the count is certified by the congressmen who witness the count, but there is not a defined procedure.
12th Amend.–No mention of how Electors are chosen. Electors meet on specified date and report to the President of the Senate. Ballots are opened and counted in presence of whole House and Senate.
This Amendment is mainly concerned that the President and Vice President cannot come from the same State and other details of how the Congress proceeds if there is no majority in the Electoral College.
24th Amend.–Protects rights of citizens to vote for President, Vice President, Presidential Electors, Senators, and Representatives. Eliminates poll taxes or other taxes as a precondition for voting.
This seems to presume that the Electors are chosen by the people of the state. By the way, the One Man/One Vote ruling of the Supreme Court explicitly prohibits the States from setting up election districts with different numbers of voters, and the districts cannot have their own electors.
In both Article II and the 12th Amendment, it is the Electors themselves who report the results directly to the President of the Senate (VP). There is no role for Governors, State Legislatures or other agencies in the reporting process.
Also, there is no specified “certification” procedure at the federal level. So, if there is any role for federal legislation, it seems it would be at the level of the vote counting in the joint session.
I have not looked up the current federal legislation regarding how the Electoral College count is to be made in the joint session, but it sure looks like there are limits as to what Congress can do.
In particular, I don’t know how a Governor can be inserted into the certification process, as it is clear that Art. II and the 12th Amend. specify that the Electors themselves certify and report directly to the President of the Senate.
I believe it is the details that is key.
The National Review had an interesting overview about subtle but critical tradeoffs that makes the Electoral Count Act so vague and has made reforming it so challenging.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/can-electoral-count-act-reform-happen-in-this-congress/
Its a good sign the author Mr Levin gave a preliminary thumbs up to the act.
@Bob Sykes, one of the potential issues of concern is when competing slates of electors are submitted from different state institutions. It hasn’t happened in a long time I believe, but in 2000, the Florida legislature was prepared to meet and certify a slate of electors (for Bush) which might have differed from what the Secretary of State would have certified after more counting. Governor Jeb had recused himself from the issue, so I’m not sure if he might have otherwise claimed a role.
The proposals I’d seen earlier merely required states to pass laws clearly identifying which part of state government is in charge of certifying the count, so there cannot be competing slates at the federal level.
Yep. Those are among my constitutional questions.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/trump-gave-explicit-order-about-jan-6-rally-make-sure-it-was-safe-event-dod
@ Shaw
Your scenario ought to be impossible, as different state institutions cannot certify elections.
In most states election results are first certified by the local boards of elections. Their reports are then certified by the state Attorney General or by some designated Board of Elections. So in each state there is only one route to certification by a final single agency.
That process also applies to Presidential Electors, so in principle it should be impossible for two slates of Electors to come out of a state.
Attempts at usurpation by some institution not identified in law as the certifying agency should be suppressed by the state courts. Under our Constitution elections are supposed to be run by the States, within certain general limits like One Man/One Vote, no poll taxes…
Drew, I read that article yesterday, and have followed Kash Patel who detailed the timeline of when Trump’s authorization was given, regarding approval of the national guard. However, facts and truth mean little in circumstances where the establishment mob wants someone’s head.
Somehow, there are those who think refinement of the Electoral Count Act will cure people’s concerns about the election process. Ironically, though, the rub lies in addressing the many irregularities seen, even filmed, in the 2020 election. Consequently, there remain many misgivings and suspicions as to how reliable and legitimate our elections really are.
Elections are useless unless the losers agree to abide by the result. Transparency, auditability, etc., are essential components to acceptable elections in a fast-changing technological society, are they not?
How do we establish them? That’s where negotiations should start. “What characteristics,” we should be asking ourselves, “would enable partisans to accept a losing result in good faith?”
The lack of air time given to that crucial question at the highest levels of power is something I find most troubling.
The extremes you go to avoid the obvious. If Trump really didnt want any violence he could have said so in his speech and when it started to happened he could have intervened instead of watching TV. If he had done his job they would not have needed the Guard or more police.
Steve
The violence was conveniently baked into what was to be a serious protest aimed at contesting what millions believed to be a corrupted election. 19 of 20 bell weather counties went double digit for Trump vs Biden. Biden won historically the fewest numbers of counties ever, while he supposedly racked up the highest vote count. How does that legitimately happen?
Trump did caution people attending his speech to go peacefully to the Capitol, reiterating that in a filmed piece that was given little media air time. Hopefully someday the full scandal will be revealed in the future putting the J6 committee’s con job to shame.
Jan: The violence was conveniently baked into what was to be a serious protest aimed at contesting what millions believed to be a corrupted election.
A false belief perpetuated by Trump and his cronies.
“What Trump’s gonna do is just declare victory. Right? He’s gonna declare victory. But that doesn’t mean he’s a winner. He’s just gonna say he’s a winner.†— Steve Bannon, Trump political advisor
Jan: Biden won historically the fewest numbers of counties ever, while he supposedly racked up the highest vote count. How does that legitimately happen?
Because of increasing concentration of Democratic voters in fewer urban counties.
“Jan: Biden won historically the fewest numbers of counties ever, while he supposedly racked up the highest vote count. How does that legitimately happen”
Did you ever take a math course beyond high school? I know you didnt take any statistics.
Steve
https://2020electionirregularities.com/statistical-anomalies/
â€Joe Biden’s lead in the 2020 presidential election tally has come as a result of highly unusual voting patterns. Biden lost 18 of 19 bellwether counties, which predicted the winner of the presidential race every time since 1980. Biden got nearly 12 million more votes than President Obama did in 2008, yet he had fewer votes than Obama in 70.7% of counties (2,228 out of 3,152).
Republican House candidates won 27 out of the 27 races that were considered “toss-ups†by the New York Times, and it is extremely rare for an incumbent president to win seats in the house and lose re-election. No presidential incumbent in the past 100 years has increased his vote and lost re-election. No incumbent that has won over 75% of the primary vote (Trump received 94%) has ever lost re-election.
Also, sudden increases in votes in the middle of the night in key swing states were found to favor Biden at extraordinarily improbable rates. Some states have more votes than people who voted. This series of highly unusual events raises the possibility — in our view, the probability — that it was not all just a series of coincidences but can instead be explained by fraud that must at least be thoroughly investigated.â€
Jan: https://2020electionirregularities.com/statistical-anomalies/
All of those “anomalies” have been debunked, repeatedly. For instance,
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wi-pa-mi-vote-spikes/fact-check-vote-spikes-in-wisconsin-michigan-and-pennsylvania-do-not-prove-election-fraud-idUSKBN27Q307
The anomalies were not debunked. There were spikes, but according to this article both candidates gained votes in the early morning ballot dumps. This article, though was far too general or convincing in explaining away the many disparities occurring before, during and after the 2020 election.
Jan: The anomalies were not debunked.
None of the so-called anomalies in your previous comment are indicative of anything. Bellwethers are bellwethers—until they’re not. Missouri used to be a bellwether—until it wasn’t. Times change. Increased partisan geographic sorting means Democratic votes are found in fewer counties.