To answer my own question I think that Zelenskyy is but I’m not sure about Netanyahu. Incidents like today’s killing of the “head of Hamas” suggest no. I’m waiting for confirmation and the response (if any) before drawing any conclusions.
In the past, Ukraine has specifically asked for direct intervention, so yes, they want more than weapons, money, and moral support.
With Israel, yes, they’ve wanted us to destroy (or try to destroy) Iran’s nuclear weapons program for many years.
Whether these constitute attempting to “draw” the US into a war is subjective. Regardless, we (the US) aren’t ignorant of what’s going on, and we consistently make our red lines clear to those allies, so I’m not worried about such attempts.
The real problem is Israel’s targeted, wanton killing of Palestinian women and children, both Muslim and Christian. The latest attack in Beirut was on Christian women and children. The murder of Sinwar and other Muslim leaders is merely cover for genocide. The real targets are Palestinian civilians.
Israel and the US are rapidly becoming pariah states, if they aren’t already.
I think the available evidence suggests that the Israelis plan to engage in the same sort of ethnic cleansing that they did in 1967 and 1948. That’s why I keep asking how aligned our goals and Israel’s goals are.
I think the alignment of our goals and Israel’s goals is limited to Israel’s survival. Not to its expansion.
I’m not sure that in a world governed by Realpolitik “pariah” has any meaning. What I wish our foreign policy people understood is that far from Russia’s becoming an international “pariah” and an economic basketcase almost the opposite has happened.
The Gulf Arab states will do business with Israel when it suits them. Other countries will do business with Russia when it suits them and with the U. S. when it suits them.
Both. Israel has long wanted us to fight Iran, in some form or another, for them. I think that wish goes beyond just destroying Iran’s nuclear program. Note that Israel opposed our nuclear deal with Iran since they wanted it to also include ballistic missiles. Zelensky has been pretty explicit about wanting us, and NATO, involved.
I agree with Andy that we have been pretty good at setting limits. Ukraine doesnt actually have that much leverage. I am more concerned about Israel drawing us in as there are US leaders who say stuff like there should be no room between Israel and US policy.
We need to recognize that we have “experts” who never met a war they didn’t like.
You just need to look at a map to see why Israel is nervous about Iran and particularly Iranian nuclear weapons. Basically, one major nuclear strike and they’re gone.
Andy and I differ on the subject of Iran’s nuclear weapons development program whatever it may be. I think that there’s nothing we can do to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Consequently, we shouldn’t worry about it. We should just ensure that the Iranians understand that should they detonate a nuclear weapon we will consider it an act of war that justifies wiping the entirety of the country off the map and go about our business.
Iran’s government is revolutionary and millennialist. They aren’t even like the Soviet Union in the 1970s. They’re like the Soviet Union in the 1930s. Had the Soviet Union of the 1930s had nuclear weapons it might well have meant the end of the world.
At this point I’m fully expecting the Israeli’s to attempt a decapitation strike against Iran’s government and oil export terminal. With our help or without it.
To answer my own question I think that Zelenskyy is but I’m not sure about Netanyahu. Incidents like today’s killing of the “head of Hamas” suggest no. I’m waiting for confirmation and the response (if any) before drawing any conclusions.
In my judgment you are correct. Ukraine is in some ways Bidens Iraq 2.
In the past, Ukraine has specifically asked for direct intervention, so yes, they want more than weapons, money, and moral support.
With Israel, yes, they’ve wanted us to destroy (or try to destroy) Iran’s nuclear weapons program for many years.
Whether these constitute attempting to “draw” the US into a war is subjective. Regardless, we (the US) aren’t ignorant of what’s going on, and we consistently make our red lines clear to those allies, so I’m not worried about such attempts.
On Israel, lets remember we are sending a complete antimissile battery and troops there. The Iranians can’t help but see it as double dog dare.
The real problem is Israel’s targeted, wanton killing of Palestinian women and children, both Muslim and Christian. The latest attack in Beirut was on Christian women and children. The murder of Sinwar and other Muslim leaders is merely cover for genocide. The real targets are Palestinian civilians.
Israel and the US are rapidly becoming pariah states, if they aren’t already.
I think the available evidence suggests that the Israelis plan to engage in the same sort of ethnic cleansing that they did in 1967 and 1948. That’s why I keep asking how aligned our goals and Israel’s goals are.
I think the alignment of our goals and Israel’s goals is limited to Israel’s survival. Not to its expansion.
I’m not sure that in a world governed by Realpolitik “pariah” has any meaning. What I wish our foreign policy people understood is that far from Russia’s becoming an international “pariah” and an economic basketcase almost the opposite has happened.
The Gulf Arab states will do business with Israel when it suits them. Other countries will do business with Russia when it suits them and with the U. S. when it suits them.
Both. Israel has long wanted us to fight Iran, in some form or another, for them. I think that wish goes beyond just destroying Iran’s nuclear program. Note that Israel opposed our nuclear deal with Iran since they wanted it to also include ballistic missiles. Zelensky has been pretty explicit about wanting us, and NATO, involved.
I agree with Andy that we have been pretty good at setting limits. Ukraine doesnt actually have that much leverage. I am more concerned about Israel drawing us in as there are US leaders who say stuff like there should be no room between Israel and US policy.
Steve
We need to recognize that we have “experts” who never met a war they didn’t like.
You just need to look at a map to see why Israel is nervous about Iran and particularly Iranian nuclear weapons. Basically, one major nuclear strike and they’re gone.
Andy and I differ on the subject of Iran’s nuclear weapons development program whatever it may be. I think that there’s nothing we can do to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Consequently, we shouldn’t worry about it. We should just ensure that the Iranians understand that should they detonate a nuclear weapon we will consider it an act of war that justifies wiping the entirety of the country off the map and go about our business.
Iran’s government is revolutionary and millennialist. They aren’t even like the Soviet Union in the 1970s. They’re like the Soviet Union in the 1930s. Had the Soviet Union of the 1930s had nuclear weapons it might well have meant the end of the world.
At this point I’m fully expecting the Israeli’s to attempt a decapitation strike against Iran’s government and oil export terminal. With our help or without it.