George Friedman weighs in on the attempts to negotiate an end to the conflict produced by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine:
The war isn’t exactly over because the fighting continues. However, unless the Russian army suddenly evolves into a more effective force, or unless the U.S. or Europe sends massive forces to drive Russia out, the lines on the map are more or less fixed. The new borders are a reality. And everyone needs to accept those realities if they want peace talks to succeed. There are other demands the Europeans can make that Russia will not accept – which shows them to be more honorable than the Americans, who just want the war to end and to do business with a weakened Russia – and there are other issues that can be negotiated. Some of these, such as the size of the Ukrainian military, can and will likely be ignored.
There is one last dimension to be considered. Russia is a nuclear power, and during the Cold War, Russia and the U.S. took every precaution to avoid posing a profound threat to each other. They dueled in the so-called Third World, but aside from the Cuban missile crisis, they never threatened to put each other in an untenable position out of fear of a desperate nuclear response. Eastern Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula are simply not worth going to the brink, as we used to say in the Cold War.
In the 1970s, the U.S. negotiated endlessly with North Vietnam over a war it long knew it could not win. The U.S. has learned from that, I think, that diplomatic pride is not worth the cost of lives. Russia cannot occupy Ukraine, Ukraine cannot force the Russians out, and the negotiations must acknowledge as much. Putin will say he does not need peace, and Europe will be outraged that America admits the inadmissible – that the war is over. But this is all posturing. Those who want the war to continue unless their terms are met are bluffing a busted flush. The war is over, except for the killing.
I disagree with Mr. Friedman only on some particulars. I don’t believe that Russia’s objective was to conquer Ukraine. I believe it was to subordinate Ukraine and, failing that, to, in John Mearsheimer’s words, “wreck it”. I also think that Ukraine’s objective has not just been to retain all of its pre-2014 territory but to create an ethnic state where there has never been one.
As I have said before I think the United States should continue to provide military aid to Ukraine with the objectives of preventing Russia from winning outright and providing Ukraine with the strongest foreseeable position for negotiations. If our European allies are dissatisfied with U. S. objectives, they should send their own troops to fight against the Russians.
The difference between subordinate vs conquer is small enough to be meaningless. BTW, what is your evidence for the supposed ethnic state goal? Anyway, Ukraine knows what it’s like to have millions killed or deported under Russian rule so I think the decision is theirs to make.
Steve
Conquered would be the Confederacy, or 1945 Germany/Japan. Subordinate is 1945 Finland, or Imperial Germany after WWI.
Both are to be avoided, but there are stark differences.
Add the point — the world is better off those examples were conquered. But states in general don’t want to be conquered or subordinated.
CO- Out of context I would agree. In context ie Russia killed and deported millions of Ukrainians and stole thousands of their children I think the difference is much smaller, especially with Russia having no compunction about invading when it’s convenient.
Steve
From the quoted portion of the article:
I think Mr. Friedman is wrong. The people who want the war to continue really believe that Ukraine will win. The Ukrainians just need more time and ammo.
All of the actions taken immediately following the anti-Russian putsch overthrew the Yanukovych government—making Ukrainian the sole official language, banning the use of Russian, Romanian, Hungarian, etc. in schools, looking the other way as neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia fought ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, etc.
Now let me ask you one. Can you name ANY persecution of ethnic Ukrainians after Stalin died?
Was Poland in 1976 conquered or subordinated?
It’s an ethnic state when you want to make the official language the one most Ukrainians speak? Seriously? Radio and TV still have a lot of shows in Russian. It should also be noted that Russia has been sending actual Russians into eastern Ukraine since at least 2014.
Persecution? The widespread arrests in the early 70s would count I think. Maybe even more the repression and persecution of leaders of the Ukrainian Orthodox church. The Russian Orthodox Church has always supported repressing the Ukraine church and have been big backers of invading and conquering Ukraine to get rid of that church.
Steve
So, by your own standards the genocide about which you complain took place under Stalin (a Georgian).
I am guessing that if you were a Ukrainian who had their kids stolen and family killed or sent to the gulags you probably didnt really care that the leader of the Russian empire was originally from Georgia. Note that only 9 Roman emperors were actually born in Rome so it’s not really an historical anomaly.
Steve