I agree with the editors of the Washington Post. We shouldn’t have worse income inequality than the countries people usually compare us with, e.g. Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, etc. But I’ll bite. How to we accomplish that without closing our southern border a lot tighter than it is right now.
None of those countries share a 1,500 mile land border with a country in which the per capita income is a quarter theirs. None of them have the percentage of the population born in that other country that we do. People in that country rarely have an adequate command of the language of business here in the United States (English). Most do not have the equivalent of a high school education.
That disparity and the lack of enforcement of our laws provides an effective subsidy for businesses to orient their business models around low-wage employees. In other words they not only changes how much businesses are willing to pay. It changes what they do.
I agree with the editors that it is a policy problem. I suspect we’re thinking about different policies.
“I suspect we’re thinking about different policies.â€
I suspect so. I’ve been listening to politicians, especially the perpetually aggrieved Democrat flavor, complaining and telling people to vote for them so they can solve………..the same old issues, for 50 years now. What’s that thingy about the definition of sanity?
We mostly all acknowledge there is a crisis at the border. And it’s not like immigration has not been suspended for long periods of time before. How about that? If I was a cynic I might think Democrats don’t really care about low income citizens, and don’t really want to solve the problem. Sumthin’ about other objectives………. if I was a cynic.
The appropriate comparison is not with Britain, or France, et al., it is with the European Union as a whole. When you do that, EU income disparity is greatly than than in the US, and extreme poverty in the EU is greater than the US, also. There is no country (Lichtenstein not counting) in Europe that ranks above the bottom third of the States in the US.
This is yet another example of deliberate, malicious fraudulent reporting. Fake news indeed.
In an effort to find common ground, I will agree with almost everything in Drew’s first paragraph, with one change.
“I suspect so. I’ve been listening to politicians, especially the perpetually aggrieved Republican flavor, complaining and telling people to vote for them so they can solve………..the same old issues, for 50 years now. What’s that thingy about the definition of sanity?”
As an example, remember how tax cuts are supposed to increase tax revenue? Didnt happen this time, just like it almost never happens. Didnt even give us an investment boost. Neither did cutting regulations. Republicans are stuck with their old ideas, just like Democrats are stuck with theirs.
If you want to solve the inequality issue you follow the money trail. Who benefits? The people at the top of the food chain, the investor class. They get cheap labor and more money. Why else is there such resistance to such an obvious fix as a robust E-verify system. Policy in this country is largely written to benefit the wealthy. Stop doing that.
If you want to solve the immigration crisis, then actually work on it. What we see is that the problem has gotten worse while using the current approaches to the problem. Do something different.
Steve
E-verify system:
Certainly agree with that. If the police are suspicious of me , they can take samples of my breath, my blood, stick their finger up my rectum.
Both parties need to explain why E-verify can’t work.
Congressional investigation!
IIRC, President Trump’s resistance to E-Verify was because it would inconvenience some employers (the point of E-Verify is to inconvenience some employers—the ones who are hiring illegals).
Well, the police will always chaff at doing another agency’s job. And now, with ICE publicly demonized, won’t even pick up the phone to give them a heads up. That’s apparently a response to strong public sentiment that all people are basically good and decent except for one evil race. Crimes committed by POC are out of need, those by the colorless, out of greed.
Americans actually want to be nice. We love the underdog. We pity immigrants in detention. See how nice they are? But it’s so shortsighted. How would you or I act in a detention center? Nice. Yes?
I’m surprised that you can say, “People in that country (Mexico) rarely have an adequate command of the language of business here in the United States (English). Most do not have the equivalent of a high school education.”
The fact is that Mexico has a higher literacy rate than the USSA, and those of them that speak a little English are also bi-lingual and often tri-lingual. You can’t say that about the majority of Amerikans. The language ability of Argentines, Uruguayans, and Paraguayans far surpasses that of Amerikans, and all Paraguayans are reared bi-lingual in Spanish and Guarani. The problem with immigration is our racism, pure and simple, not the poverty or lack of business language skills among Latinos.
Of course, those who are poorly educated are naturally over-represented in the wave of immigrants, largely due to our lousy immigration rules that prefer “family re-unification” over merit and skills, including your “business language skills.” I’m sure that New Zealand, Australia and Canada, all of whom favor merit over family, do not experience the immigrant poverty problems that we do.
That said, I still prefer the North or Central American carpenter, brick-layer, roofer and landscaper over the available Amerikans. I offer a job to any Latino who comes knocking at my door; so would any wise Amerikan who can speak some Spanish. Have you ever seen a White or Black American citizen, male or female, installing asphalt roofing in Texas in August?
I should have included the Corporatist Republicans in the bad guy column, steve. But by now you should know I think that. Those guys generally also come with another title: Never Trumpers.
E-Verify doesn’t magically only affect those hiring illegals. It affects all businesses hiring. And don’t underestimate the burden it places on them. Its considerable. Fraud is everywhere.
Measuring the effects of one variable in a complex and dynamic economy is a fools errand. But to justify taxing is to take the economic position that government knows how to spend your money better than you. Pardon me while I laugh. You might also want to consider a guy who couldn’t get elected in today’s Democrat party: John Kennedy.
Taxes? Taxes? We don’t care about no stinking taxes……..
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-29/over-taxed-middle-class-being-wiped-out-nj-residents-flee-droves
In Florida there are more coming from 4 states: NJ, NY, MA and IL than all others combined.
It’s easy. Tax the living shit out of those with a higher income/wealth than 25% below the median and distribute that wealth to those below that level (and to the illegals coming in). That’ll even it up quick. But first confiscate all the privately-held firearms in the country including water pistols. Only then will resistance be futile.
OT: This is an interesting article about California’s efforts to reduce medical costs.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-surprise-billing-medicare-for-all-hospitals_n_5d3b4aeee4b0ef792e0bf150
A tidbit, the Canadian provincial government (Saskatchewan) to first introduce universal public health care — overcame a doctor’s strike.
J. Kirby:
Amerikans:
That spelling is like DNA identifying you as an America hater. On the languages spoken you have a point, but there’s a reason for that.
That doesn’t explain why you want to conflate America with the Klu Klux Klan, which has been eliminated.
CO- I think that New York and New Jersey already have pretty good laws against surprise billing, so it can be done. That said, let me add to this article you submitted, using their numbers. If a person has private insurance, it pays some providers about 3 times what Medicare pays, so lets use 3x as the payment for private insurance and x as the payment for Medicare. The article notes that with surprise billing the provider may receive 12x as payment, quite a surprise. So what this bill is suggesting is that providers should accept x as the payment, the same as Medicare, or around 2x, the discounted pay you accept when you participate with an insurance plan in return for receiving higher volumes of patients.
I would conjecture that if they had been willing to settle on a number between 2x and 3x, the consumer would still come out way ahead, and the providers would also still be relatively happy. The greed of the providers was unethical I believe, but trying to screw them back isn’t a very good response either.
“But first confiscate all the privately-held firearms in the country including water pistols.”
Just out of curiosity where are they confiscating all of these firearms? In PA I can own as many guns and as much ammunition as I want. (Local municipalities do sometimes have regs about powder for relaoders.)
Steve
Drew gets his financial expertise from a comedian. That is funny! (Guess it could have been worse and he could have asked an economist!)
Steve
E-verify doesn’t work and it will never work. I refer you to this article from Pew Research:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/16/immigrants-dont-make-up-a-majority-of-workers-in-any-u-s-industry/
The vast majority of illegals work in the cash economy or in small businesses. In those sectors such as construction or agriculture which are major employers almost all of the work is done by contractors and subcontractors. Enforcement costs alone would be prohibitive.
A bit OT, but interesting article on growth in East Asia. Lot of funny lines too. From Cowen’s site.
https://medium.com/@byrnehobart/lessons-from-the-east-asian-economic-miracle-5f8d0f2354d9
Steve
“I agree with the editors of the Washington Post. We shouldn’t have worse income inequality than the countries people usually compare us with, e.g. Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, etc.”
I’ve posted the statistics here before- Before taxes and transfers, most of Europe is a lot worse on inequality than we are. Our inequality is worse only after accounting for taxes and transfers. Unlike here the US, taxes, and transfers in European countries tend to actually help the poor while most of ours move money between cohorts in the top 50%.