As of this writing a suspect in the murder of Charlie Kirk has been apprehended and, indeed, it appears that his motivation was political. To the best of my ability to determine that suspect does not have a criminal history or a history of mental illness.
In reaction to Mr. Kirk’s murder the editors of the Washington Post declaim:
Too often, partisans appear eager to blame their opponents after any heinous attack — rather than straightforwardly condemning it. Studies suggest that strong public denunciations of violence from elected leaders help strengthen norms against it.
The overwhelming majority of prominent Democrats forcefully and promptly condemned the killing of Kirk, including New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani and California Gov. Gavin Newsom, who hosted Kirk on his podcast six months ago. Former president Barack Obama said that “this kind of despicable violence has no place in our democracy.” Though Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker (D) decried the violence, he couldn’t help himself from taking a dig at Trump. “I think the president’s rhetoric often foments it,” he said, a disgracefully ill-timed comment.
The more effective strategy for deterring violence is when political leaders criticize their own supporters for engaging in violent conduct or inflammatory speech. That would require a degree of honesty and integrity among our elected officials I don’t believe we have seen in decades.
If you need a case in point for why I disapprove of Illinois’s governor, Gov. Pritzker’s remarks quoted above are sufficient. Note that I am not alone. The majority of Illinoisans feel the same way.
Also in the Washington Post Megan McArdle’s column on political violence:
The people who do these things are not in any sense normal. The United States does not have the kind of organized political violence you see in countries tipping into civil war. What we have, at the moment, is too many people who have been deranged by life circumstances and mental illness and whose fractured brains have been further sickened in the fever swamp of online politics. The Second Amendment makes it easy for those people to get guns that do real-world damage.
If reports are correct, there is no “reasonable gun control” that could have stopped the attack on Kirk; the shooter appears to have used a bolt-action rifle, about the last category of weapon that would be banned. The only policy option is mouth control, attempting to tamp down the cultural forces that point sick people toward this most destructive and dangerous form of violence.
The most obvious place to start is with the legions of keyboard warriors, 101st Chairborne Division, who enjoy spinning online fantasies about hurting their political opponents — or glorifying those who do, like Luigi Mangione. Almost all those people are just talking, trying to signal their ideological purity or make themselves feel tougher and more courageous than their nondescript white-collar job would otherwise suggest. But they are giving ideas to those who want to do more than talk, including the idea that hurting other people can be a shortcut to fame. So stand down and knock it off. You are not a member of the online French Resistance; you are a soft and silly adolescent engaging in performative sociopathy to compensate for your real-world deficits.
Although I think her column is pretty good, there’s one thing that I think she’s missing. For those whose livelihoods depend an ever-expanding federal government any reductions in federal spending are, indeed, existential threats. That’s true, too, of those who imagine such a career for themselves.
Deterring political violence requires either a much higher level of surveillance than we’re willing to impose or pay for or a prevailing moral code that puts such violence beyond the pale. Realistically, there is no such prevailing moral code today. We have outgrown such primitive beliefs.
In the Wall Street Journal poli sci prof Ken Wallsten laments:
Ask Americans who’s to blame for the country’s recent outbreak of political violence and you’ll get mirror-image answers. The left points to the Whitmer kidnapping plot, the bludgeoning of Paul Pelosi, the shooting of Minnesota Democrats Melissa Hortman and John Hoffman, and the Jan. 6 Capitol riots. The right points to the congressional baseball practice shooting, the murder of UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson, the two attempts on Donald Trump’s life, and the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Each side sees the other as uniquely dangerous, and reactions to every new act of politically motivated violence quickly devolve into partisan score keeping.
But the biggest divide in support for political violence isn’t ideological, it’s generational.
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression’s 2026 College Free Speech Rankings show that more than one-third of students now say “using violence to stop a campus speech” can be acceptable. This should set off alarm bells in the nation’s classrooms, faculty lounges and dean’s offices.
It’s tempting to blame higher education. Over the past decade, campuses have seen a steady stream of disruptive protests targeting invited speakers, all while university leaders equivocate about the importance of political tolerance. At the same time, students are steeped in orientation materials, DEI trainings, lectures and syllabi that recast speech as violence and valorize resistance in the name of social justice. Many critics have concluded that colleges and universities are “teaching intolerance.”
But support for violence aimed at shutting down speech runs much deeper than college campuses. In a national survey I conducted last year, respondents were shown a list of eight politically divisive and potentially offensive statements (e.g., “All whites are racist oppressors,” “America got what it deserved on 9/11,” “January 6th was a peaceful protest”). They were then asked to select the statement they found most offensive from the list. Following this selection, respondents were asked whether “using violence to stop a speech” advocating the idea they selected as most offensive is “never,” “rarely,” “sometimes,” or “always” acceptable.
The good news is that nearly 80% of Americans reject efforts to silence speech they find personally offensive, with large majorities of Democrats (77%), independents (80%) and Republicans (82%) all saying violence is never acceptable.
The bad news is that the story changes dramatically when looking across generations. While 93% of baby boomers and 86% of Generation X say violence is never acceptable, only 71% of millennials and 58% of Generation Z do. And, there’s no meaningful difference between the attitudes of 18- to 26-year-olds who are and who aren’t enrolled in college.
or, shorter, fasten your seatbelts, we’re in for a bumpy ride.
On right-leaning sites I’ve been seeing a lot of complaints that President Barack Obama’s criticism of political violence is mealy-mouthed because he’s been calling President Trump a fascist. I have identified no such statements from President Obama.
Hillary Clinton is another story. She has frequently compared Trump to Hitler see here, here, and here. Are any further comments necessary to explain why I could not vote for her?
Also note the distinction between the “left” and “right” litanies of offenses with which Dr. Wallsten opens his op-ed. All of the offenses of “the left” listed by Dr. Wallsten are mortal attacks whose perpetrators appear to have been in their right minds and whose motives were explicitly political. The offenses of “the right” are either not mortal, the perpetrator was deranged, or the motives are not clearly political (or some combination).
We clearly have a problem and they both do it. It’s just “it” and “they” that are different. I don’t exculpate either Republicans or Democrats. There is, however, a matter of degree.
“ We have outgrown such primitive beliefs.”
??
Should I have included sarcasm tags?
I would disagree that Mangione was explicitly political ie aimed at Republicans. If you read his manifesto he was angry at the healthcare system and the corporate culture that controls much of it. The CEO he killed was not AFAICT a significantly politically active figure beyond trying to get money from the government. I understand fully that for some reason people want to lump him on the left but anger with the health care system is pretty common on the left and right. Also, I am not understanding the claim that all o the attacks by the left were mortal. Scalise lived and in the second Trump case no shots were fired.
Why would you leave out the Tops store shooting in New York over the Race Replacement theory? AFAICT that is an ideology limited to the right. That seems a lot more politically linked ie aimed at a political party or political ideology than the Mangione case. Anyway, could be more explicit about what you mean saying matter of degree? Also, could you explain why Hillary, no longer active in politics, calling Trump Hitler is worse than Trump calling leftists in general scum?
Anyway, I think it’s a bit of a fool’s game to try to prove one side is worse than the other. Both are bad. At any given time one may be worse than the other but the pendulum swings.
Steve
I would agree that Mangione was not partisan but his actions were political or ideological nonetheless.
Then why consider him as a leftist? I read through a fair bit of his stuff. It’s not really pro-leftist. He quoted AOC but was also a supporter of RFK.
Again, what did you mean by mortal? Only Kirk died, presumably, as the result of partisan politics ie influenced by the left-right divide. (Also, the Routh guy seems pretty whacko to me.) You continue to ignore the fact that the name calling, the efforts at dehumanizing and painting the opposition while it occurs on both sides actually comes from the very top ie Trump, on the right.
Steve
Dave Schuler: Hillary Clinton is another story. She has frequently compared Trump to Hitler
Trump is a wanna-be fascist. That doesn’t change, even if you don’t believe political violence is effective or justified.
Dave Schuler: Are any further comments necessary to explain why I could not vote for her?
Yeah, that feckless Weimar republic. May as well vote for the other guy, the one who promised to make the country great again. He says crazy stuff sometimes, but that’s just how he talks.
As Tom Wolfe wrote, the dark night of fascism is always descending on the United States but only lands in Europe. I didn’t vote for Trump, either.
Mussolini, who coined the term “fascism”, defined it this way: “All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.” I don’t think that Trump is a good guy but the I don’t think you can accept that definition of fascism and coherently claim that’s Trump’s political philosophy. Actually, I don’t think he has a political philosophy. That would be too abstract.
Using the Mussolini definition of fascism is like asking any dictator to justify their actions. They just arent going to take responsibility for or even admit to the bad parts. Would you use Mao or Stalin’s (positive) definitions of communism?
I am still confused on this mortal thing. If no shot is even fired it’s still a mortal attack? Hitting someone in the head is not a mortal attack? You are willing to look back to 2017 for the Scalise shooting but ignore the much more recent New York shooting. Meh. When you make up your mind ahead of time I guess facts dont matter.
Steve
Jesus H Christ.
The contortions required.
Kirk’s killer had been radicalized. The incessant references to Trump and MAGA as fascists, authoritarians, Hitler etc. Just go over to OTB and read nutcase number one (Taylor) and his sycophants and you see diseased minds. That Joyner has allowed his once great site to be taken down just saddens.
And now, right on que, as I suspected. We find out that despite main media attempts at sanitation the killer is involved with a tranny. Apparently a furry as well. (Didn’t know what that was until my wife told me). He is Antifa and tranny-desirous. I couldn’t care less about the latter. Just keep it in your bedroom. I care very much about the first. Violence.
We will never overcome these violence issues until we are honest about who these people are. Stop making excuses.
If we insist that its Trump or MAGA then crazed partisans will win. Videos litter the internet of leftists calling for aggressiveness, or violence. Chuck Schumer. Nancy Pelosi. Maxine waters. Obamas AG. The TX looney whose name escapes me. I could go on. The videos are out there.
Meh. The internet is full of right wingers calling for violence. Social media is even worse. Let’s not forget who invented the term 2nd amendment remedies. Both sides have been ramping up the rhetoric so it’s not one sided. That said, the actual number of politically motivated killings is tiny. Given how many guns we have in the country and how easy they are to obtain, and the level of rhetoric and the number of crazy people we have it’s amazing we dont have more killed. This year it’s 2 Democrats killed and one Republican.
Steve
Dave Schuler: As Tom Wolfe wrote, the dark night of fascism is always descending on the United States but only lands in Europe.
That doesn’t mean Trump isn’t a wanna-be fascist, and he has made significant strides into concentrating power—the usual autocratic way—by declaring emergencies. He has even used eliminationist language. Some of the institutional damage may not be reparable, meaning the next wanna-be will have an easier time of it.
Dave Schuler: I didn’t vote for Trump, either.
Kamala cackles when she laughs.
Dave Schuler: Mussolini, who coined the term “fascism”, defined it this way: “All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
While a statement of totalitarianism, it is only one component of fascism, which also entails ultra-nationalism, anti-liberalism, and strict hierarchicalism under the autocratic rule of a single person.
Dave Schuler: Actually, I don’t think he has a political philosophy. That would be too abstract.
One doesn’t have to have an abstract notion of fascism to be a fascist, which is in a lot of ways a symbolic or mythological aesthetic.
steve: This year it’s 2 Democrats killed and one Republican.
Notice the difference between the media reaction to Kirk’s death and the deaths of the Hortmans.
Studies have shown that there is generally more political violence coming from the political right, though that balance has changed over time.
or, said another way, the people who invented fascism did not understand fascism.
What was the motive of the individual who murdered the Hortmans? His “manifesto” (such as it was) said that Tim Walz had directed him to do so. It also suggested that his motives were not partisan or ideological in the sense commonly used.
My view is that he is mentally ill.
Dave Schuler: or, said another way, the people who invented fascism did not understand fascism.
That doesn’t necessarily follow. The statement about “the state” was not given as a definition, but as a formula for the organization of the “nation”, defined as a people moulded by the state, “unified by an idea and imbued with the will to live, the will to power, self-consciousness, personality.”
Dave Schuler: It also suggested that his motives were not partisan or ideological in the sense commonly used.
The assassin had a target list of Democrats, including Walz, and pro-choice activists. Yes, he was mentally ill, but he was clearly targeting people on the political left.
“No, the Minnesota shooter did not claim that Governor Tim Walz made him do it. This is a false conspiracy theory that was spread on social media by right-wing accounts immediately following the murders of Minnesota lawmakers.” Chat GPT
He may be mentally ill but that has not been the conclusion of investigators so far who have not found anything to support the claim. They found hit lists for abortion providers and IIRC LGB people. He actually seems more akin to the Scalise shooter, mentally intact with anger issues.
Crooks for example left no manifesto and no one really knows his motives for shooting. Per the family he was engaging in bizarre behavior in the months before the shooting. So he was also probably mentally ill, we dont know his motives, but he was definitely a lefty. Routh sounds pretty unhinged in some of his online rants. Yet he cant possibly be mentally ill. We dont have a full assessment on the current shooter.
Steve
“Meh”. A dog whistle for radical leftist groups. Disgustingly dismissive of the values Americans have lived and lost their lives in defense of.
Today, I cannot distinguish a “progressive” from a radical socialist. Hate is the fuel and the binding characteristic they share.
They position themselves as brave revolutionaries challenging the powerful status quo. But they come from exactly those positions in society.
Meh.
We’re tearing apart society and family.
Meh.
We’re concentrating wealth.
Meh.
Oppose us and you are a Neanderthal.
Meh.
You will own nothing and acquiesce happily.
Meh.
From perplexity.ai:
and
So his reasoning lacked political reasoning but he was motivated by political extremism aimed at Democrats and abortion rights advocates, which are largely the same. Sounds like he was driven by conventional left-right political ideology. I guess this is better than citing actual conspiracy theorists.
Steve
Since there are not many articles saying it was not political or he was a right winger, ChatAI has a limited amount of material to plagiarize. ChatAI is simply aggregating source material.
When did ChatAI become an authoritative source?
TastyBits: When did ChatAI become an authoritative source?
AI chat should be treated as, at best, a tertiary source. AI chat is malleable, so it can be persuaded with misleading information. Meanwhile, Grok says it is proud to be known as MechaHitler.
The LLMs are fairly good if you need a pretty specific answer. What day was a famous treaty signed or how many countries have more than 6 colors on their flag. They are less reliable when the questions are more philosophical. Look at how poorly worded is the response Dave cites. It both says it was political and sort of not political.
Number one son, computer genius is home visiting and he has access, probably not all quite legit, to a number of these LLMs (there are quite a few now). We asked several if the Minnesota killings were politically motivated along the left-right, conservative-liberal axis. They all said yes, or probably, but with a lot of confusion. I think they are probably programmed to avoid taking what could be seen as a politically biased POV.
Anyway, I still mostly start with Google. The little AI thing at the start is kind of helpful if its something on which i dont need a lot of depth.
Steve
steve: The little AI thing at the start is kind of helpful if its something on which i dont need a lot of depth.
While poor at making judgments, AI chat can be very effective at integrating large amounts of information. Sorta like a super-Google, it can do a hundred searches. compile the results, and provide a summary. However, sources should always be checked, just as you might with a Google result. Google-fu is becoming obsolete.
That’s even more urgent with AI models. They have been known to “hallucinate”.
@steve
The genesis of my comment was because you acquiesced so quickly without the least protest, and that is not how you normally react. I assumed that this was because it was generated by AI.
While I do not often agree with you, I think it is important there is another point of view. If nothing else, opposing you helps strengthen my argument, but often, it brings a different perspective.
ChatAI simply aggregates other people’s work as its own. There is no thought process. It simply matches the patterns fed into it, and the “tuning” is simply weighting the variables. It is the same thing pollsters do.