Looking For Love in All the Wrong Places

In his latest Wall Street Journal column Walter Russell Mead muses about the relationship between India and the United States:

Americans and Indians often see the same problem in very different ways. India, for example, does not see Russia’s attack on Ukraine as a threat to world order. While Americans have been disturbed by India’s continued willingness to buy oil from Russia, Indians resent the West’s attempt to rally global support for what many here see as a largely Western problem in Ukraine. Pointing out that Europeans scarcely noticed China’s attacks on Indian frontier posts in 2020, Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar told a conference in Bratislava, Slovakia, last week that “Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe’s problems are the world’s problems.”

More generally, Indians bristle when they sense Americans and Europeans getting together to write global rules. The more that American Wilsonians talk about a values-based international order, the more that Indians worry about Western arrogance. Many Indians want a strong Russia and, within limits, a strong China precisely to help guard against the kind of world order President Biden and many of his advisers want to build.

This is more than the postcolonial suspicion of Western intentions that India has long shared with many other non-Western countries. The Hindu nationalist movement that has replaced the long-ruling Congress Party with a new political system built around the Bharatiya Janata Party and its charismatic leader, Narendra Modi, has brought a new dynamism to Indian foreign policy. This new nationalist India wants to increase and develop Indian power, not submerge Indian sovereignty in Western-designed international institutions.

There are a couple of things I wanted to point out about that. First, note how his observation about the rise of Hindu nationalism aligns with my observation about the rise of nationalism more generally. The form that nationalism is taking in India is as religious nationalism.

Dr. Mead concludes:

These conflicts aren’t going away and will likely get worse over time. Hindu nationalism is here to stay. So are India’s communal tensions, and so too for that matter is the belief of many Americans that they have a solemn duty to tell people in other countries and cultures how to live—and to impose sanctions on those unhappy occasions when they fail to take our advice. If bilateral relations are to prosper, Indians and Americans need to find better ways to manage these chronic issues.

India and the U.S. are raucously democratic societies, and their foreign policies cannot ignore public opinion. Managing this critical relationship is never going to be easy. Building deeper ties between the two societies will help; so too will quiet, low-key conversations aimed at preventing blowups before they occur. Both sides need this relationship; we both need to focus on making it work.

I’m skeptical whether a relationship between the United States and any religiously nationalistic country can “work”. That includes not just Israel but also Saudi Arabia, other Gulf Arab states, and, possibly, Turkey. The most we can hope for is some sort of modus vivendi and they cannot be our allies and certainly not our friends. That modus vivendi will vary from country to country.

There are other issues about which we need to be more sensitive. What is broadly viewed here as “promoting our values” including promoting women’s rights and gender preference and identification rights, may not be seen that way in other countries, particularly countries in Asia and Africa. They are seen as colonialism and even considered assaults on the fabric of other societies and, indeed, religious in nature.

My rather heterodox views are:

  1. The United States is and always has been an outlier in the area of fundamental rights.
  2. We have lots of clients and vendors but no friends in the world.
  3. Our values are not universal. Most other countries reject them.
  4. Modern communications and economies require us to maintain relations with other countries including countries that are very unsavory.
  5. We should do so with our eyes open. He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon.

One last point and it’s one I’ve posted on before at length. Immigrants to the United States leave a lot behind them in the former countries but they bring with them their social, cultural, political, and religious views. We need to keep our eyes opened about that as well.

13 comments… add one
  • bob sykes Link

    We most especially do not share our values with the other Anglophone countries, Australia, Canada, UK, and New Zealand. Not one of them recognizes any of US Bill of Rights. None of them has freedom of the press, or of speech, or of religion (ask any Catholic in Britain), the right to keep and bear arms, the right against self incrimination, or against unreasonable searches and seizures…

    One thing Mead and Hanson should write about is the evident loss of influence the US/EU/NATO have suffered in the world. No country that is not a military ally of the US supports the sanctions against Russia, and even some of our allies don’t, Turkey, Bulgaria, and Hungary for starters.

    And it is evident that the anti-Russia sanctions will cripple the EU economies even as the high prices for fuels and food strongly benefit Russia.

    The Summit of the Americas is also becoming an embarrassment. The Presidents of Mexico, Bolivia, Honduras, St. Vincent and the Grenadines will not attend the summit because Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela are not invited.

    Canada, Chile, Mexico, and Peru have expressed interest in joining the 16 country RCEP free trade zone, which already includes everyone of our allies in Asia and the Pacific and is centered on China. The US is excluded, and China took its place in the defunct TPP.

    The tide is running strongly against the US/EU/NATO, and the block is rapidly losing influence in the world. In large part, this reversal is simple justice. For decades the US has simply issued orders to its so-called allies and other countries, and they have resented it. Now many foreigners think it is pay-back time.

  • Drew Link

    “My rather heterodox views are:”

    Heterodox? Really? Perhaps only with progressives and your party’s
    current leadership. Dave, those people are batshit crazy, and they don’t have a clue.

    “The United States is and always has been an outlier in the area of fundamental rights.”

    TJ: We hold these truths to be self evident…. Why the slavish defense for Muslims in the Dem media and Dem Party? Where’s the love for women, homosexuals? Oh, only when its a political weapon against Republicans…. Why the Balkanization? Pure perceived political opportunism. Democrats be damned.

    “We have lots of clients and vendors but no friends in the world.”

    That’s a bit overwrought, don’t you think? In international relations, does anyone have more than 1, 2 friends?

    “Our values are not universal. Most other countries reject them.”

    Indeed. See the treatment of women in Africa, where the exalted black people live. How about throwing homosexuals off roofs in SArabia? Good times….

    “Modern communications and economies require us to maintain relations with other countries including countries that are very unsavory.”

    Yea. File it under no shit sherlock. And so many other issues, like energy. So the progressives need to be told to go to hell.

    We were told the adults would be in charge. We got the kindergarteners…… Endeth the rant, but show me wrong.

  • Drew Link

    ” Immigrants to the United States leave a lot behind them in the former countries but they bring with them their social, cultural, political, and religious views. We need to keep our eyes opened about that as well.”

    I forgot to comment on this. This is a crucial point. “Diversity is our strength” is a brain dead comment often used. Says who?

    What are Guatemalan peasants going to do to strengthen our research into electric battery research? No, they are going to service low skill jobs. I understand they may seek opportunity. But what is the effect on our people?

    But more importantly, what does it mean to be an American? To have shared values and experiences? Or is it just a site at the government teet, facilitated by Democrats or corporatist Republicans looking for votes? Their real constituencies be damned.

  • What are Guatemalan peasants going to do to strengthen our research into electric battery research? No, they are going to service low skill jobs.

    That’s not the greater problem. The greater issue is that they increase the need for education, transportation, healthcare, sanitary, and safety services. They need housing and food.

  • bob sykes Link

    A further comment on India and Hindu nationalism. The US Commission on International Religious Freedom has singled out India for a special rebuke:

    https://www.indianpunchline.com/uscirf-report-is-a-writing-on-the-wall/

    This was done at the same time the State Department and White House were trying to pressure India into sanctioning Russia. Such chaos in our own government must defeat many of our proposals.

  • That is reflective of a failure of leadership. IMO State needs a thorough housecleaning. That’s one of the (many) reasons we need civil service reform. Present civil service law impedes the president’s Constitutional responsibilities regarding foreign policy. In theory the State Department carries out the president’s foreign policy. In practice State has its own foreign policy.

  • steve Link

    Immigrants do contribute. They come here to work and generally have a better work ethic than native born.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/04/almost-half-of-fortune-500-companies-were-founded-by-american-immigrants-or-their-children/

    “Where’s the love for women, homosexuals? ”

    When you accuse Dems of not being pro gay you ought to rethink about your rant.

    Steve

  • I don’t argue that immigrants don’t contribute. I don’t see how immigrants earning at or below minimum wage can afford to support their families. It’s not a question of industriousness. It’s a question of ability to pay their own way. Add housing, food, transportation, education, healthcare, sanitation, and safety and it comes to more than two people can pay earning minimum wage or lower.

    Not every immigrant is Sergey Brin. Most of them have limited English and don’t have education at high school level or above. As I write this comment we have immigrants coming into the U. S. across our southern border at the rate of 2 million/year. They’re not all Sergey Brin.

    If the services being received by immigrants were the same as they were in 1883, we wouldn’t have a problem. But they aren’t so we do.

  • steve Link

    “I don’t see how immigrants earning at or below minimum wage can afford to support their families. ”

    Our conservatives claim that people making minimum wage or a bit below are just fine. They need to pay more taxes not less and they can afford their own health care. They dont need any government help. I am sure they can explain it to you. (This should be fun!)

    First, as I am sure you know we are having 2 million encounters not 2 million actually entering and staying. (About 1/4 of encounters are same people trying again. About half are sent right back) Second, I am pretty sure you dont believe we have a fixed number of jobs. Next, if not a Brin are we OK if they start new small businesses? Last, we probably do have too many to assimilate right now. I support doing stuff that will cut down on this. Stuff that might work, not stupid stuff like walls. Still think that the larger problem is the jobs we send out fo the country.

    Steve

  • As I have said any number of time here’s what I think about immigration:

    1. We should have a guest worker program with a larger number of slots targeted for Mexican workers. Pick a number. Above that number should be zilch.

    2. It should be practically impossible for illegal immigrants to work in the U. S.

    3. I think that asylum requests should be triaged within 24 hours of encounter. Most asylum requests made at our southern border are bogus.

    Otherwise I don’t much care. I think that, as you put it, “we have too many to assimilate right now”. IMO we have a carrying capacity and we reached it quite a while ago. Right now we have more immigrants as a percentage of population than any time in at least the last century. We need a breather. Never supported a wall. Always thought that serious workplace enforcement was key. I don’t disagree with offshoring is a problem but I think it’s one that could be mitigated by making companies that offshore ineligible for federal contracts.

  • One more point:

    First, as I am sure you know we are having 2 million encounters not 2 million actually entering and staying.

    I think we have more than 2 million entering and staying per year. For one thing I don’t think that ICE and Border Control are 100% effective.

    Also to the best of my knowledge every single individual making an asylum request is presently being admitted into the country pending the request being adjudicated.

  • steve Link
  • Jan Link

    The “2 million encounters, with half being sent back” assertion is BS. The border patrols are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers crashing the border. Many slip into the interior of our country unchecked, at points of entrance not monitored. Our border towns are being destabilized by these trespassers and out-of-control crime. Our border patrol officers are demoralized by the lack of control there is on the border, and the deceptive policies being demanded of them.

    The latest caravan pictures taken, of the stream of humanity flowing northward, is gripping, ever terrorizing. What are we going to do with all these people? How can their children weave themselves into public education without taking away from the education of others? Many are not being tested for disease, and then promptly released into a virus- crazed, mask- wearing society! Basically, we are involuntarily being subjected to a very cruel, needless Biden policy, brought about by a knee-jerk EO at the beginning of his administration, which will not have a good ending.

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