And by extension Thomas Sowell as well. Today in a piece at The Free Press Konstantin Kisin declaims:
A friend of mine joked that she woke up on October 7 as a liberal and went to bed that evening as a 65-year-old conservative. But it wasn’t really a joke and she wasn’t the only one. What changed?
The best way to answer that question is with the help of Thomas Sowell, one of the most brilliant public intellectuals alive today. In 1987, Sowell published A Conflict of Visions. In this now-classic, he offers a simple and powerful explanation of why people disagree about politics. We disagree about politics, Sowell argues, because we disagree about human nature. We see the world through one of two competing visions, each of which tells a radically different story about human nature.
Those with “unconstrained vision†think that humans are malleable and can be perfected. They believe that social ills and evils can be overcome through collective action that encourages humans to behave better. To subscribers of this view, poverty, crime, inequality, and war are not inevitable. Rather, they are puzzles that can be solved. We need only to say the right things, enact the right policies, and spend enough money, and we will suffer these social ills no more. This worldview is the foundation of the progressive mindset.
By contrast, those who see the world through a “constrained vision†lens believe that human nature is a universal constant. No amount of social engineering can change the sober reality of human self-interest, or the fact that human empathy and social resources are necessarily scarce. People who see things this way believe that most political and social problems will never be “solvedâ€; they can only be managed. This approach is the bedrock of the conservative worldview.
Hamas’s barbarism—and the explanations and celebrations throughout the West that followed their orgy of violence—have forced an overnight exodus from the “unconstrained†camp into the “constrained†one.
While I agree with Dr. Sowell that the dichotomy with respect to the perfectability of human nature is real and one thing that distinguishes progressives from conservatives, I don’t believe it is the only thing. For one thing, there is no universally accepted definition of what human nature is. Indeed, that’s part of the argument.
I would go on to observe that those dichotomous options, “unconstrained” vs. “constrained” are non-verifiable. Consider it this way: can human beings be perfected and how do you know?
Alternatively, I would assert that there are at least three axes in which people diverge: belief, preference, and gain. Mr. Kisin’s piece largely deals with belief. But there are other differences which cannot be explained easily by whether you accept the “unconstrained” or “constrained” vision. Preference is one of them. Some people want to be taken care of; others want to be left alone. Both of those preferences exist on a gradient—most people want to be taken care of in some circumstances but not in others (that preference is called “succorance”). Other are nurturance (whether you want to take care of others), interoception (how important understanding yourself) is, and many others.
The last distinction on my list, I am sorry to say, is gain: whether you benefit personally from what you advocate.
In short I think the distinction between those who adopt the “progressive mindset” and those who adopt the “conservative mindset” is much more complicated than Mr. Kisin supposes. That very complexity explains how one might go to bed believing one is a progressive and wake up believing one is a conservative. Or vice versa.
I don’t know. I think you’re right about those other axes making it more complex but I think the specific axis affected by the events of 10/7 is the belief one. The harsh reality is that Hamas has been the beneficiary of “collective action that encourages humans to behave better†and has used it to savagely attack their neighbors. For some progressives, that has shaken their belief in the unconstrained view of human nature. For others of course, their belief will not be shaken and they will call for more and more aid.
Perhaps the question that should be asked is how can we tell? If the Democrats are routed in the 2024 election that would be proof. What else?
I don’t think that will happen for reasons outlined in the post: preference and gain are against it.
I presume that steve will argue that our politics is purely tribal which would also be against it.
I guess I should remind you that this is the same Sowell, the ultra libertarian, who was a full scale supporter of using torture when we were the ones attacked. The same guy who wouldn’t trust govt to do anything right had complete trust in govt to decide whom to torture and that they would know how to do it in such a way to get accurate usable info.
“belief one. The harsh reality is that Hamas has been the beneficiary of “collective action that encourages humans to behave better—
I feel like i am missing something. What collective action encouraged Hamas to behave better? They live in Gaza, the nation with the worst unemployment rate in the world and live with a permanent blockade. Meh. Also, would it be fair to point out that the conservative base is largely composed of evangelical Christians? (What I grew up with.) Part fo the bedrock of that faith is that everyone can be saved, that accepting Jesus as your savior can change your life. They actually love the stories about the drug addict or criminal who accepts Jesus and turns their life around. Or even the skirt chasing, multiple marriage, real estate crook who becomes a politician.
So I am not really buying this explanation very much. It’s more about when people are angry enough they arent really rational. They are tribal or they find ways to justify what they want to believe or do. Also on the tribal front Pastor Hagee was making appearances on Fox last night. It was a good reminder that the GOP has long stated that there should be no room between then and Israel. They also hate Muslims. They were big supporters of Netanyahu who supported them.
That means you get conservatives who are OK with having everyone in Gaza dying of thirst and why any attempts by people on the left pointing out that Hamas and the Palestinians are not equivalent leads to claims that they support Hamas. Even if there were some truth to Sowell’s claims, there are so many complicating factors it’s pretty meaningless. Finally, Sowell has set up straw men. I no of virtually no one saying there are simple solutions to eg poverty that will make it entirely go away, rather that it might be possible to reduce it. (Sowell is very overrated in my book.)
Steve
Dave Schuler: While I agree with Dr. Sowell that the dichotomy with respect to the perfectability of human nature is real and one thing that distinguishes progressives from conservatives
It’s not a dichotomy, but a spectrum of beliefs. That’s why people who want simple answers think Sowell is “one of the most brilliant public intellectuals alive today.”
Very few progressives think humans can be perfected. Most think things can be made better through institutional reforms.
Conservatives who hold such views ignore the centuries of progress made in human society. By most any measure, the world today is a far better place for most people than was the life of a medieval peasant, or even a medieval lord.
Do you have evidence for that?
As another post (to which I did not link) put it “It is foolish and dangerous to engage in military operations based on the premise of who is the most pissed off. ”
I’m still waiting for someone to explain how Israel can achieve its stated objectives without killing a lot of Gazans who aren’t members or even supporters of Hamas. Let’s start with this. Egypt is preventing food, water, and medical supplies from going to Gaza. Egypt is also preventing people from fleeing from Gaza.
Dave Schuler: Do you have evidence for that?
Seriously? Absolute perfectionism is an extremity in political discourse (e.g. Marxism). Also, keep in mind that the perfect is often an ideal to be strived for but not ever attained, as in “a more perfect Union.”
In any case, we’ll restate it thus: the belief that humans can be absolutely perfected is not universal among progressives. The two points remain: Progressive believe that “a more perfect” society can be had through institutional reforms. History since the Renaissance shows that such progress can and has occurred.
Teddy Roosevelt, founder of the Progressive Party:
“At times any man will slip. I do not expect perfection, but I do expect genuine and sincere effort” .
I feel like i am missing something. What collective action encouraged Hamas to behave better? They live in Gaza, the nation with the worst unemployment rate in the world and live with a permanent blockade.
Governed by a terrorist organization that has kept those conditions by diverting foreign aid to making rockets and tunnels, and poses an existential threat to both of its neighbors which is why they’re blockaded. Does that fill in the piece that you were missing?
PD Shaw:
I would like to hear your thoughts on the equivalence Zachriel is making between Teddy Roosevelt and today’s progressives. Probably to their credit, I don’t believe that today’s progressives have anything in common with TR other than the word “progressive”.
Dave Schuler: Teddy Roosevelt and today’s progressives
We quoted Teddy Roosevelt because we had thought he would be considered uncontroversially a progressive. So, either you’re arguing that Teddy Roosevelt was not a progressive, or maybe that today’s “progressives†aren’t progressive. Or something.
Progressivism is generally considered to be advocacy for the improvement of society through institutional or governmental means. In Roosevelt’s day, that meant breaking up the power of monopolies and mandating limitations on child labor. Today, it means breaking up the power of monopolies and universal health care. How are you using the term?
“I’m still waiting for someone to explain how Israel can achieve its stated objectives without killing a lot of Gazans who aren’t members or even supporters of Hamas. Let’s start with this. Egypt is preventing food, water, and medical supplies from going to Gaza. Egypt is also preventing people from fleeing from Gaza.”
This is the money line in that debate. Reality is often not what we wish.
“I’m still waiting for someone to explain how Israel can achieve its stated objectives without killing a lot of Gazans who aren’t members or even supporters of Hamas.”
Straw man. I have said over and over killing some civilians is perfectly OK when pursuing Hamas. I haven’t read anyone saying anything else, but its a big country so it wouldn’t surprise me if you could find someone, but overwhelmingly its understood its going to happen and Israel has every right to do so while trying to kill Hamas.
The question rather is how many. To that I would give 2 answers. If Israel is actually pursuing eliminating Hamas then the acceptable number is large. 200,000-300,000. So 10%-20% of Gaza. If they revert to what they normally do ie kill a few Hamas but stop when they think they have enough to satisfy revenge needs then 50,000 is more realistic. Their normal ratio of Israeli deaths to Palestinian is about 15:1. This attack was worse so that number would make it about 35:1. (This discounts ongoing Palestinian deaths from poverty but not sure how to count those.)
Steve
I agree that how many is a good question. The follow-up question is how many dead Gazan civilians will it take to bring other countries into the war? I suspect it’s a lot fewer than 50,000 and certainly fewer than 200,000.
I don’t happen to think that Israel can achieve its stated objectives and that it is likely to level a good chunk of Gaza to create a buffer between Israel and Gaza. That will crowd the remaining population into an even smaller area than before.
My working assumption is that no one really likes Palestinians. They are useful for scoring political points in the ME but at this point I have a hard time seeing anyone wanting to fight for them. Iran will only engage in indirect attacks and only if they think they can cause harm. Israel is paying attention and we have carrier groups. I expect only token action from Hezbollah unless they see an opportunity or Israel prods them into it. The increased security zone has been the most likely outcome all along I thought.
Steve
“Israel is paying attention and we have carrier groups”.
What makes you think that deters Hezbollah or Iran?
In a hypothetical that Hezbollah / Iran engage in a medium or high intensity conflict with Israel, what exactly could carriers do? Hezbollah’s strategy already assumes they don’t have air superiority. And I doubt anyone in Congress or the administration is considering using ground forces.
Hezbollah outperformed during their last conflict with Israel, which underperformed. However, Israel did destroy a lot fo Lebanese infrastructure so Hezbollah stopped. Even if they take few casualties they are sensitive about damage to their communities. Iran does too want direct confrontation, as judged by their actions. They want proxy activity. Our planes there means if they launch missiles they can face faster and likelier more extensive response to their attacks. They have, by report, lots of missiles. Just cant see them wasting them while Israel is paying attention and we can reinforce. I do expect harassing attacks trying to tie up Israeli troops/air force.
Steve