Brendan O’Neill remarks on the response to the murders in Orlando:
Consider how extraordinary this is: in less than 48 hours, the Western response to a horrific massacre of our fellow Westerners, of our fellow democratic citizens, became bound up in divisive discussions over terms and jealous efforts to ‘own’ the massacre. Where once we might have responded to such an act with human empathy, and with a determination to come together to insist on the right of all people to live as they please, now we fight over who has the greatest moral claims on the massacre; we police emotional reactions.
which I find very reminiscent of what I predicted when I first heard about the horrific incident. And while his closing exhortation:
Our response to Orlando should be a human one, a renewed determination to defend humanist ideals against murderers and misanthropes who seek to slay them. Let us now fight harder than ever for the value of human solidarity, and for the greatest humanist ideal of all, the one most under threat from both Islamists and identitarians in the 21st-century West: that people should be free to think, say and live as they please, regardless of who it offends.
is appealing I think it misses the point. Just here in the United States there is disagreement. Not all of us believe that people “should be free to think, say and live as they please”.
That’s a critical division. It’s what prevents us from responding with anything other than a cacophony.
If you really believe in humanism, then you must exclude Islam and Muslims from our society. They are virulently anti-humanist in the extreme.
Our response to Orlando should be a human one, a renewed determination to defend humanist ideals against murderers and misanthropes who seek to slay them.
From what I’ve read today, that means rounding up all straight white men and putting them in gas chambers. Honest to God, people have been saying that not baking a cake for a gay person or not wanting Dr. Frank-n-furter to go to the bathroom with your six year old daughter is worse than killing gays by the dozens and stacking their bodies high for barricades.
Not only is the Republic lost, the country and the people are lost. America as an ideal or a functioning nation is a thing of the past. Not it is just a race to see if everyone can be more degenerate than Caligula, while the wealthy and powerful play games while looting the country.
When faced with a moral dilemma, admittedly obscured by those seeking partisan tactical advantages, it is sometimes instructive to step outside the moment and seek guidance elsewhere. I look to Just War Doctrine and its fruits, the Geneva Conventions. This body of thought seeks to bring some semblance of civility and morality to that most unholy violation of both, war.
At base, these doctrines recognize that the agreements depend on voluntary compliance by both parties. When one side purposefully, egregiously and continuously violates the agreements then the other party is no longer constrained, ethically or de jure, by the agreements. The gloves are off and it’s tooth and claw time. This includes the strictures of proportionate response and the status of non combatants.
Justice Jackson formalized a principle attributed to Abraham Lincoln that “the Constitution is not a suicide pact”. This extends, by sheer obviousness if nothing else, to arguments that we be constrained from efficacious actions by ethical considerations, appeals to Christianity or “that’s not who we are”.
We are at war. We are at war with a barbaric, 7th century tribal civilization. Our current leaders deny this. The people no longer agree with those leaders. No circumlocutions will suffice to convince them otherwise. We did not start this war, despite the spurious claims that is some how our own fault. That construction is past its sell date, its odor offends. What to do? The people will decide. I sense that the people are angry and getting angrier. The government must, must act. We are blessed that this is an election year and we can settle this at the ballot box. I believe that Donald Trump will be the next president and by a large margin. The situation is existential, if not in fact so be it, but that’s what the people believe.
We are out of airspeed, out of altitude and out of time. It’s time to shit or get off the pot.
I was going to comment on this but I just got called up for gas chamber duty.
Steve
I see that there was a kill-list published by a pro-ISIS group with 8,000 names including 600 Floridians. Perhaps, they should get together, hold hands, and sing a few rounds of Kumbaya. I am sure the radical Islamic terrorists will be impressed.
Oh wait, I meant wayward cub scouts. We would not want to offend any potential killers. I am sure there will be a questionnaire to determine whether the death sentence is by having one’s head sawed off or by being burned alive in a cage.
Here is a suggestion: wear a bulletproof vest to any gay marriage you may attend. The terrorists who cannot be named do not like gay anything.
And while I am at it, I seriously doubt a weapons ban is going to stop the people who have perfected the suicide vest. Why they have not done it yet is beyond me.
This is just a marker: the fall of 2015 was the Peak of Progressivism.
@Icepick
It may take a while, but your daughter will inherit something you will recognize. It will not be exactly the same. It will be better, but it might not seem like it now.
the fall of 2015 was the Peak of Progressivism.
I would like to believe that….
Back from gas chamber duty so time to comment before lunch. You really work up an appetite gassing a bunch of conservatives and Christians. Anyway, I think suicide vests are going to fall out of favor with the waiting period that is being imposed in some places. This may be a violation of Constitutional rights, but i can see it happening here. Damn liberals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Zj5XxK9ec
Steve
First, I want to know what goes on inside of those mosques, places of worship, fuck that. More likely exhortations to commit murder.
Second, lets build a virtual security wall and make the Saudis pay for it. We need surveillance inside the mosques that we can use to pursue them under the RICO laws. Muslims= mob.
Trump Trump Trump!
Well, I agree with Ice’s second paragraph. To me it’s really depressing. I don’t see any use in “debating” this with anyone outside a close circle of friends. 95% of the arguments ignore relevant facts or just recycle tired talking points. Everyone has their own notion of what we should do, but none of the solutions (that I’ve read, which is most of them) would have prevented this tragedy – none of them!
Meanwhile, Trump is doubling down on a Muslim immigration ban (A dumb, unenforceable policy) and Clinton thinks due process rights should not apply to the 2nd amendment. I really don’t think we’ve learned anything since 9/11. One murderous spree, as tragic as it is, has everyone shitting their pants and demanding radical solutions. We have met the enemy and he is us.
Oh, and this, which I think I’ve posted before.