David French’s Account

I encourage you to read David French’s account of what he sees as likely to happen in Gaza in the New York Times. In summary he believes that Israel is likely to approach Hamas much the way Iraq and the U. S. approached Daesh in Mosul. Here’s the kernel of it:

We are witnessing nothing like the immediate mass destruction of an indiscriminate attack, but large numbers of precision attacks can still inflict extreme (and deadly) damage.

If civilians aren’t evacuated from the combat zone, the intensity of combat makes significant civilian casualties inevitable, even if Israel fully complies with the law of war: I also spoke this week to James Verini, a contributing writer to The Times Magazine, who wrote “They Will Have to Die Now: Mosul and the Fall of the Caliphate,” perhaps the definitive on-the-ground account of the fight for Mosul, and two things he said stood out in the conversation.

First, because precision weapons sometimes miss and intelligence often fails, airstrikes inevitably inflict serious collateral damage, including civilian casualties. Second, as the fight drags on and ramps up in intensity, concern for civilian lives often diminishes. That was the pattern for the less-disciplined Iraqi security forces, but we can’t for a moment presume that Israeli soldiers are superhuman. Most of them are draftees and reservists. They’re subject to the same fears and temptations under extreme stress and anger as any other soldier in any other army.

Then there’s the factor of time. Spencer observed that Israel always fights against the backdrop of a ticking clock. The United States is an independent economic and military superpower. We possess the world’s most powerful military and the world’s most potent economy. We have the luxury of fighting on timetables we set. If we want to slow down and take nine months to clear a city, we can take nine months to clear a city.

My view, as it has been for some time, is that U. S. interests do not align well either with those of the Israelis or those of the Palestinians but Hamas, by its actions and admission, is hostis humani generis and the Israelis will deal with it as such. I’m concerned that the Israelis will not be as scrupulous as Mr. French insists they will and our government should do what it can to ensure that it is. That does not align well with the position that the Biden Administration has been articulating.

Update

I hope the editors of the Washington Post are right:

At a time when the United States, and the world, desperately need decency and moral clarity, President Biden has provided both. His words regarding the wanton atrocities Hamas has committed against hundreds of Israeli civilians, as well as many Americans and citizens of other countries, in the past week have been unequivocal. In remarks to a gathering of American Jewish leaders Wednesday, he described the mass murder as “sheer evil” and likened it to “the worst atrocities of ISIS.”

In condemning the terrorism, and offering support to Israel’s military response, the president also reminded the new emergency war government under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of its responsibilities under “the law of war.” These measured statements put the United States in just the right place: supportive of Israel but positioned, if need be, to influence and temper its response.

That would be a departure from the historic U. S. position. As I say, I hope they’re right.

7 comments… add one
  • Andy Link

    A major difference between Mosul and now is the asymmetrical narratives. No one cared about or followed the siege of Mosul much. No one but a few humanitarian agencies say much of anything about military operations that killed a lot of civilians in order to dig ISIS out.

    Here the, the narratives and levels of interest are far different. And, as we’ve seen, there is an obvious hatred and bias in large parts of the American left-wing against Israel and Jews. That the permission structure exists to not only equivocate about Hamas’ massacre but to celebraten it is genuinely shocking and surprising to me. Not only that, but celebrate Hamas’ goals of killing Jews and destroying Israel. Claims that butchering unarmed civilians is justified because they are “settlers,” ” colonizers,” and military targets because Israel has mandatory conscription.

    To me this has been a turning point. Previously I had thought that a lot of the stupid stuff happening on universities, especially elite universities, was just more of the same kind of dumb, performative nonsense that I remember from my time in college. But celebrating and justifying atrocities while administrators stay silent tells me there is real rot.

    I am frequently accused by liberals – usually at OTB because that is where I mostly engage with progressives in comment sections – either directly or indirectly of supporting fascism, having dinner with Nazi’s and other such nonsense not because I support the GoP, but because I am insufficiently critical of the GoP. And here we have a case where the government of Hamas repeats the methods of Nazi Einsatzgruppen, and the reaction is either that same silence of university administrators while suggesting the “explanation” is the long list of grievances they have about Israel’s crimes. The “I’m not defending Hamas, but…” puts them in the same category as Salman Rushdie’s “but brigade” only instead of free speech, here we are talking about genocide.

    And to get back to the point about asymmetrical narratives and the OP, we predictably see from the but brigade that only Israeli actions matter. Just about everything that can be interpreted as a war crime, is called a war crime. There is no suggestions on how Israel is supposed to attack its enemy Hamas that the but brigade wouldn’t consider a war crime. Meanwhile, nothing is said about Hamas and it’s war crimes. When Hamas uses civilians as human shield, the fault is entirely with Israel. When Hamas threatens to behead (war crime) hostages (also a war crime), there’s a collective shrug. Every bombing in Gaza is a war crime, but Hamas deliberately targeting civilians with rockets and other attacks – both war crimes – go unmentioned. Every problem that exists in Gaza is portrayed as entirely the fault and responsibility of Israel. The so-called “open air prison,” the poverty and misery. The government of Gaza, Hamas, gets no blame despite the clear evidence that Hamas doesn’t care about social services, it only cares about it’s own power and killing Jews. The idiocy of people who complain about Israel closing the borders as some kind of crime, when it should be clear after the events of this past week why Israel doesn’t allow an open border with a government that is bent on genocide.

    I mean, I could go on and on, but the point is that Israel is being held to not just a much, much higher standard of conduct, but one that the but brigade intentionally makes it impossible to achieve – other than by Israel essentially surrendering.

    And so this will not be like Mosul, because in Mosul no one, include the but brigade, was much concerned about civilian casualties and certainly didn’t spend every waking moment cataloging real and perceived war crimes as a method of political attack against the coalition fighting ISIS.

    But leaving aside such opinions and Nazi-adjacent advocacy, there is a real, fundamental difficulty in urban combat of this scale. And Mosul is also different because in Gaza, Hamas has been in charge for almost two decades and that gives them huge advantages that ISIS didn’t have.

    For one, is support of the population. It’s debatable the extent to which Gazan’s support Hamas, but a non-trivial number do, and Hamas certainly has much more support that ISIS had in Mosul.

    Secondly, Hamas knows the terrain better than anyone. It’s been building military infrastructure for almost two decades. It’s definitely on “home turf” which gives a huge military advantage. ISIS did not have that nearly to the same extent in Mosul.

    That means that ground operations in Gaza will be extremely difficult for Israel. And, combined with Hamas desiring lots of civilian “martyrs” for propaganda purposes, many civilians will be killed. I honestly don’t know if Israel can actually accomplish their goal of destroying Hamas, and that is especially the case when influential parts of elites in the West, especially the US, are part of the but brigade that has sympathies for Hamas.

  • A major difference between Mosul and now is the asymmetrical narratives. No one cared about or followed the siege of Mosul much.

    I was in Internet correspondence with someone who lived in Mosul in the early days of the Daesh occupation. It was pretty frightening. Shortly thereafter I lost touch as should not be surprising. I don’t know what became of my correspondent.

    I am frequently accused by liberals – usually at OTB because that is where I mostly engage with progressives in comment sections – either directly or indirectly of supporting fascism, having dinner with Nazi’s and other such nonsense not because I support the GoP, but because I am insufficiently critical of the GoP.

    I have precisely the same experience. It is impossible to live in Illinois and to think that the Democrats have all of the answers. At least not with a straight face.

    One of the problems is that Hamas are actual fascists, as they have just demonstrated. What we have is a recurring nightmare of “the best and the brightest” in support of actual fascists, stridently proclaiming their support for law, charity, and democracy.

  • CuriousOnlooker Link

    Its not the West (or conflicted feelings in) support of Israel that is the difference compared to Mosul — but Hezbollah and the Syrian front.

    The Iraqi government didn’t face an issue where one of its neighbors is saying it would intervene if it went and liberated Mosul from Isis. My guess is the Israelis would have to devote most of its army to fight Hezbollah in a scenario of an all-in attack on Israel.

    The difference in favor of Israel is Hamas lost a sizable proportion of their fighting force in the attack, and likely an even larger proportion of its best fighters.

  • steve Link

    Nah, the real issue is that you cant criticize Israel. Under normal times that is perilous. With these recent attacks and their brutality it’s even more difficult, and to be fair even if Israel did do something wrong, clearly they have not, it would be too soon.

    So you can say that these were brutal attacks. You hope they kill off all of Hamas. If they kill a bunch of civilians in the process, that’s cool. What you cant do is ask how we got here, why are we here, who is at fault, what comes next, what’s the end game. Rather, if you do ask the answer must be that Israel is always correct, which it is.

    As to French, I think time will be an issue. It took a lot of time to go through Mosul. It started in October and didnt finish until the following July. Israel population is just short of 10 million. 300,000 reservists is like our calling up over 3 million. It will be hard to sustain that. They likely go back to bombing, very justifiably, even if they do start that way.

    Steve

  • They likely go back to bombing, very justifiably, even if they do start that way.

    I suspect that after the initial “softening up” Israel will turn to a fullscale invasion of Gaza which will prove too costly in terms of time, people, and money. Then they’ll return to bombing.

    I also question Mr. French’s claims about how fastidious the Israelis are. Heck, we aren’t perfectly fastidious all of the time, either. It’s one of the many reasons I think that war should be avoided when possible.

  • steve Link

    “I also question Mr. French’s claims about how fastidious the Israelis are. ”

    All of the Palestinians are Nazis.

    Steve

  • I don’t believe that all of the Palestinians are Nazis but I do believe that some are, not limited to Hamas.

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