I encourage you to read Robert Lynch’s article on privilege at Skeptic. Basically, he considers one question: is it better to be born into the richest family in a poor neighborhood or the poorest family in a rich neighborhood? This strikes home for me since I did both. I spent my first ten years in the richest family in a poor neighborhood and next half dozen as the poorest or at least one of the poorest in a rich neighborhood. My younger siblings didn’t share that experience.
Here’s his conclusion:
Decades of social mobility research has come to the same conclusion. The income of your parents is by far the best predictor of your own income as an adult. By using some of the largest datasets ever assembled and isolating the effects of different environments on social mobility, research reveals again and again how race effectively masks parental income, neighborhood, and family structure. These studies describe the material conditions of tens of millions of Americans. We are all accidents of birth and imprisoned by circumstances over which we had no control. We are all born into an economic caste system in which privilege is imposed on us by the class into which we are helplessly born. The message from this research is that race is not a determinant of economic mobility on an individual level.39 Even though a number of factors other than parental income also affect social mobility, they operate on the level of the community.40 And although upward mobility is lower for individuals raised in areas with large Black populations, this affects everyone who grows up in those areas, including Whites and Asians. Growing up in an area with a high proportion of single parents also significantly reduces rates of upward mobility, but once again this effect operates on the level of the community and children with single parents do just as well as long as they live in communities with a high percentage of married couples.
One thing these data do reveal—again, and again, and again—however, is that privilege is real. It’s just based on class, not race.
None of my siblings nor I are poor and I suspect that my wife and I have the highest household income in the family (of our generation) or nearly so. I was fortunate in being born into a frugal, hard-working, closely-knit family. My dad’s family was resolutely upper middle class while my mom’s was lower class or classless. Make of that what you will.
But class is largely a consequence of history, including the history of racial oppression. The term for this is systemic racism.
Thanks for your support.
Racism stands tall in first place among human interactions.
I’ll bet that the Hutus and Tutsis had you spinning like a top.
His writings support most of my biases so I tend to agree with him. I do wonder if this is actually true, but if so it is important.
“children with single parents do just as well as long as they live in communities with a high percentage of married couples.”
Having grown up intermittently poor and working in areas with a lot of poverty it has long seemed pretty obvious to me that poor white people and poor black people share many of the same pathologies. I guess where i might differ with he author is that a lot of the laws, policies and regulations that adversely affect both black and white poor people were initially aimed at black people. As a white or black person you can give up the behaviors that cause you to fail but the black person will still be black and there are quite a few examples, like car stops, that are done based upon race.
Steve
Note the implication of the quoted passage: beneficial social norms benefit both those adhering to the norms and those who do not. For the benefit to accrue most must adhere to the norms.
It takes a village?
Class Not Race
Which means is that even if all vestiges of racial prejudice magically disappeared, minorities would still constitute much of the underclass. When you say it is class, that means you are likely poor because your ancestors were poor. And why are you poor? Because your granddaddy’s general store was burnt down at night or because your parents couldn’t get an education or a decent job or a loan before the moment when racial prejudice magically disappeared.
As more and more people in the West scramble to find their own place in the lucrative business of being in the minority,
I’d ask a simple question, if racial oppression can crush a people’s fortunes for generations, why aren’t Jews the poorest people on earth?
Grey Shambler: if racial oppression can crush a people’s fortunes for generations, why aren’t Jews the poorest people on earth?
Jews have had long periods where they were poorer than the mainstream. They were slaves in Egypt, after all. Certain historical differences have allowed them to survive and repeatedly rise up, though, including the cultural importance assigned to learning and education, and strong international contacts that were leveraged for trade and banking. Blacks in America have also risen up, only to be struck down again.
Class isn’t destiny. It’s just a tendency. Systemic racism is the result of historical racism. The behaviors associated with poverty and loss can carry forward through generations.
You’ve convinced me, Zachriel. Since no just remediation is possible and whites are incapable of change, the only just recourse is a mulligan—everyone in the United States should return to the country of their ancestors. For a few (like Grey Shambler’s kids) that is the United States.
Like most Americans I’m a mutt. The predominant strains are Swiss, Irish, German (Rhinelnad-Pfalz), and France. I’ll go to whoever will have me.
“Systemic racism is the result of historical racism. The behaviors associated with poverty and loss can carry forward through generations.â€
I honestly cannot understand that.
The problem as I see it is that the sentiment is very appealing to the underclass and helps perpetuate it.
If you can describe the Jewish culture as being uniquely superior, then you have opened the door and other cultures can be described as losers and the losing culture is celebrated in popular culture.
Young people actually emulate prison attire in search of status.
I know this isn’t new but unless you’re an entertainer it’s a path to failure.
And probably even then.
Dave Schuler: Since no just remediation is possible and whites are incapable of change
That wasn’t the argument, of course. Rather, it’s that systemic racism will persist for some time, even after racial prejudice ends. And that claim is based on your original post that it is largely class not race that defines the next generation.
Dave Schuler: the only just recourse is a mulligan
The mulligan for whites was called the New Deal {ETA and the GI Bill}.
Grey Shambler: I honestly cannot understand that.
Even without the behavioral aspects, ancestral class largely defines future class—as supported by the original post.
Behavioral aspects of poverty often make sense when you are poor. For instance, regularly saving a portion your income works for the middle class who already have substantial reserves, but for the poor the paltry amount that is saved is often lost due to circumstances beyond the person’s control, so it makes sense in a way to use the money now. But, yes. It does perpetuate the poverty. Hence, behavior, even rational behavioral adaptations, can amplify the transmission of class across generations.
Grey Shambler: If you can describe the Jewish culture as being uniquely superior ‘
The Jewish people have had their ups and downs just like other cultures.
Zachriel:
You might consider an alternative explanation. “Systemic racism” may be an explanation but should not be an excuse. Just to cite one example, the homicide rate among black Americans is a multiple of the rate among whites. That can be explained by history but history does not excuse it.
If “systemic racism” is dispositive, how do you explain that there are upper income and upper class black Americans? And there indubitably are.
Today is the day that all racial prejudice ended, the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah!
Sadly, all the upper positions and most of the lower positions of a business are white due to historical discrimination. The white manager is looking to hire. Luckily, he has been cleansed of all prejudice by the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah! He looks for references by talking to his friends, his neighbors, his co-workers, the guys at the club, his church. All these contacts are white because of historical discrimination. But not one of them is prejudiced due to the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah! He ends up hiring the white son of someone he knows at the club, who also goes to his church. Oddly enough, neither the manager nor his friends or colleagues notice a problem. It’s the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah!
Dave Schuler: If “systemic racism†is dispositive, how do you explain that there are upper income and upper class black Americans? And there indubitably are.
Robert Lynch: The income of your parents is by far the best predictor of your own income as an adult.
Z: Class isn’t destiny. It’s just a tendency.
It’s difficult for me to take this overgeneralization, offered without evidence or proof, seriously, especially when I (white) have been in the minority in my last three jobs. I don’t resent it and haven’t disliked it. I merely state it as a fact. In the job I had five years ago I was the only white American in an upper level position.
Oddly enough, neither the manager nor his friends or colleagues notice a problem.
Dave Schuler: It’s difficult for me to take this overgeneralization . .
Guess you don’t accept the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah! either. It’s a simplified universe to show how historical racial oppression can result in continued racial disparities—based on the claim in the original post about the class of the parent strongly influencing the class of the children.
Dave Schuler: offered without evidence
Seriously? That’s exactly how it worked, minus the Miracle of Today—Hallelujah!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVOis55XUAAHGFV?format=jpg
Another phenomenon which results in racial disparities is last hired first fired policies, even though it is facially neutral. Also, putting highways through neighborhoods with lower land values and populated by people with lower economic and political clout means established minority neighborhoods are destroyed, even though the policy may be facially neutral.
Of course the effect is even more pronounced and long lasting if some people retain latent prejudice.
Our latest post was lost in the ether. Instead, we’ll just post this simple syllogism.
Given:
A. Past discrimination resulted in racial disparities in social and economic class.
B. Past class is a strong predictor of future class.
Therefore,
C. Racial disparities will tend to persist over time. (Note this doesn’t require continued discrimination or prejudice.)