Meanwhile in his New York Times column Ross Douthat observes that Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” hypothesis actually explains events better than the competition. The two competitors he identifies are “left wing”:
But more often lately Huntington has been invoked either warily, on the grounds that Putin wants a clash of civilizations and we shouldn’t give it to him, or in dismissal or critique, with the idea being that his theory of world politics has actually been disproved by Putin’s attempt to restore a Greater Russia.
That’s the argument offered, for instance, by the French scholar of Islam Olivier Roy in a recent interview with Le Nouvel Observateur. Roy describes the Ukraine war as “definitive proof (because we have many others) that the ‘Clash of Civilizations’ theory does not work†— mostly because Huntington had predicted that countries that share Orthodox Christianity would be unlikely to go to war with one another, but instead here we have Putin’s Russia making war, and not for the first time, against a largely Orthodox Christian neighbor, even as he accommodates Muslim constituencies inside Russia.
and “right wing”:
Writing for the new outsider journal Compact, a would-be home for radicals of the left and right, Christopher Caldwell also invokes Huntington’s seemingly falsified predictions about Orthodox Christian unity. But then he also offers a different reason to reject Huntington’s application to our moment, suggesting that the civilizational model has been a useful framework for understanding events over the last 20 years, but lately we have been moving back to a world of explicitly ideological conflict — one defined by a Western elite preaching a universal gospel of “neoliberalism†and “wokeness,†and various regimes and movements that are trying to resist it.
but
Caldwell’s analysis resembles the popular liberal argument that the world is increasingly divided between liberalism and authoritarianism, democracy and autocracy, rather than being divided into multiple poles and competing civilizations.
concluding:
Yet both of those contemporary arguments offer weaker interpretive frameworks than the one Huntington provided. No theory from 25 or 30 years ago is going to be a perfect guide to world affairs. But if you want to understand the direction of global politics right now, the Huntington thesis is more relevant than ever.
IMO both of those views are a misunderstanding. The “Third Rome” theory is not “Orthodox Christian unity” in the sense they’re using it but that recoiling from that unity is a sort of blasphemy. This is the part of Mr. Douthat’s column I found most convincing:
China’s one-party meritocracy, Putin’s uncrowned czardom, the post-Arab Spring triumph of dictatorship and monarchy over religious populism in the Middle East, the Hindutva populism transforming Indian democracy — these aren’t just all indistinguishable forms of “autocracy,†but culturally distinctive developments that fit well with Huntington’s typology, his assumption that specific civilizational inheritances would manifest themselves as Western power diminishes, as American might recedes.
I would add that bundling American democracy with French, German, or British democracy is itself an enormous oversimplification and requires something of a willing suspension of disbelief. There are things that people in each of those countries consider fundamental rights that the others gape at in shocked disbelief.
Part of the problem in Ukraine is that it is not completely Orthodox. The western part has a large nominally Roman Catholic population, largely, but not entirely, the result of centuries of Polish and Lithuanian occupation and rule, and because the Soviets added some of traditional Poland to Ukraine (Galicia).
Moreover, there is a schism in Ukrainian Orthodoxy. Ukrainian Orthodox were almost entirely Russian Orthodox, but the current government engineered a schism to separate the Ukrainian church from the Russian Patriarch.
Huntington for some reason overlooked the Ukrainian Catholics. However, Russian culture and language is so dominant in Ukraine that that mistake can be forgiven.
And just how religious are Ukrainians, anyway? If they are anything Europeans, they are heavily secular. So are we. So this war is not a religious war between Catholics and Russian Orthodox, either. More importantly, the Russian-Ukrainian war is NOT a war within Orthodoxy in any sense.
Since the war may be ending with a Russian victory (now being negotiated), one wonders whether Poland and Hungary will seize their ancient lands from Ukraine. If Ukraine is to lose the Donbas and Crimea, as is almost certain, why not also Galicia and Transcarpathia?
Will Romania seize Moldova?
Being cynical about these things I think it more likely that Putin and co are probably more likely using the true believers than that they truly believe. Unless the Orthodox in Russia are much different than evangelicals in the US they go gaga over anyone who pretends to care what they believe. At the risk of Godwins law the nazis invoked mysticism to excite the faithful and true believers. I think its just one more tool that authoritarian leaders have at their disposal.
This probably mostly about Putin stating in power. His popularity is based upon a better economy. He needs to either continue that, and stealing the parts of Ukraine with the fossil fuels would help as would keeping Ukraine as an economic vassal, or he needs a distraction that will unite the country. Putting the empire back in place could help.
Steve
On that we are in agreement.
I think that religion is an aspect of culture. Even when not practicing Jewish culture is persistent, just to give one example. Most Catholics in the U. S. believe in Americanism more than they do Catholicism. That may seem paradoxical but it’s not. Their culture has changed.
Speaking as a non-Muslim to my eye for many Muslims their religion and culture are actually conflated. As a consequence non-Islamic practices older than Islam, e.g. female circumcision, honor killings, have a religious veneer. They aren’t actually religious practices but they’re treated as though they were.
Huntington’s book (1996) has a specific discussion of Ukraine as a cleft country, divided east/west by different cultures on the basis of language, history and religion. While these cultural divides are not civilizational, they were mapping onto political identities of pro-Western versus pro-Russian in national elections. Also, one-third of Russians in western Ukraine complained of anti-Russian animosity, compared with 10% in Kiev. He identified three outcomes, from least to most likely:
1. Mearsheimer ‘s position that Russian aggression against Ukraine is inevitable without Ukraine having a nuclear arsenal. Huntington points to the number of agreements the two countries reached regarding nuclear weapons, Crimea, Russian rights, the Black Sea fleet and economic cooperation as being more hopeful, as well as civilizational affinities.
2. Ukraine is split. (He particularly notes the issues around Crimean independence in the early 1990s) He quotes an unnamed Russian General: “Ukraine or rather Eastern Ukraine will come back in five, ten or fifteen years. Western Ukraine can go to hell!” The potential boundaries of Western Ukraine are of a landlocked country, which he doesn’t see as viable without strong and effective Western support, likely only to be forthcoming if relations between the West and Russia “came to resemble those of the Cold War.”
3. The most likely outcome is Ukraine remains united, cleft, independent and cooperative with Russia. This scenario is likened to the relationship btw/ France and Germany.
Was he wrong? It looks like Ukraine muddled through with option 3 until 2013/2014 when the President refused to sign the EU Association Agreement, a revolution toppled the government, Russia seized pro-Russian Crimea and East Ukraine broke out with pro-Russian separatists movements. That sounds like option 2 emerged, except Huntington saw the pro-West side as the minority faction, where it appears that support for EU membership by 2013 was strong through most of the country.
Also, notice that Putin describe the pro-Western Ukraine faction, at least the ones that took to the streets and fulminated the coup as NAZIs. He is describing the enemy as civilizational foe, even though most of the destruction appears to be happening in Russian speaking areas.
@Bob Sykes: Huntington does mention the Ruthenian Uniate Church in his book. I have read a few references to Huntington lately and it seems like they are talking about the article.
” That sounds like option 2 emerged, except Huntington saw the pro-West side as the minority faction, where it appears that support for EU membership by 2013 was strong through most of the country.”
Seems like I read somewhere that the majority of people in the East did favor it. While I think they may favor some aspects of Russian culture I think it likely they covet the prosperity of those countries which leave the Russian sphere.
Steve
Gelman has a nice piece on attribution error. I think that a recurring mistake has been the assumption by some people that Russia/Putin had no choice in what they were doing, that only the west and in particular the US had choices. Its an article on journalism but I think it applies.
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2022/03/30/one-sided-journalism-and-the-fundamental-attribution-error/
Steve
I don’t think I’ve ever claimed that they had no choice but rather that given knowledge of Russian history, culture, and politics, the outcome should have been expected.
Of course the Russians have agency. So do the Ukrainians. So do we. Russia should not have invaded Ukraine. Ukraine should not have discriminated against its non-ethnic Ukraine citizens or armed civilians. We shouldn’t have expanded NATO to former Warsaw Pact countries or offered NATO membership to former Soviet republics.
Ukraine asked to join NATO, we didnt force it on them. Russia should not have put Ukraine in the position of needing to ask. Same with all of the others.
Nice piece by Freedman (Prof war studies Kings College). He claims that only about 1/3 of the disputed area in East Ukraine is actually pro-Russian. Nice bit of history on the Donbas region. Russia wanting that entire region makes it look this is more than protecting some minority. All about the oil and controlling Ukraine as an economic vassal state.
https://samf.substack.com/p/the-problem-with-the-donbas?utm_source=twitter&s=r
Steve
How? By ceasing to exist? Ukraine would have seen Russia as a threat regardless of what the Russians did for the simple reason that they were.
The Mexicans think the same way about us. 61% of them consider the U. S. a threat. That’s what is means to be a big, powerful country with weaker neighbors.
Maybe start by not invading other countries, or starting and abetting civil wars in other countries. Maybe allow other countries to have economic relations with he EU or US. Or maybe it is just a coincidence that so many former SSR countries asked to join NATO.
Steve
We haven’t invaded Mexico in more than a century. We aren’t preventing them from doing anything. Mexicans still feel threatened by the U. S. So, you’re saying there’s nothing the Russians can do. The Ukrainians will still feel threatened by Russia.