I believe with all my heart that both Barack Obama and John McCain completely satisfy the constitutional requirements for presidents of the United States. But bear with me for a second. If the idea that No Quarter, the pro-Hillary Clinton blog of ex-CIA Larry Johnson, is peddling, that Barack Obama was not born in the United States but rather in Canada (or even Kenya), is correct, it certainly presents some intriguing possibilities.
Sen. Obama cannot testify credibly as to where he was born. None of us can. Both his mother and his father are deceased. Who could testify authoritatively as to where he was born? What would constitute adequate proof? What if no original birth certificate is available?
If he’s not eligible what would happen? Would the entire Democratic Party primary process need to be re-started? I don’t think it’s reasonable that the nomination simply be handed to Hillary Clinton.
As far-fetched as all of this is I think it’s speculation that Sen. Obama really needs to lay to rest soon. The last thing the country needs is a court challenge to his election to the presidency filed in November and eventually decided by the Supreme Court of the United States.
If this citizenship information is true, it gets even more interesting:
Obama Natural Born II Update
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXNLLAk9gek
There is one thing for sure, this has become a very important and real issue that needs a lot more attention!
Oh, please. Some evidence is in order for such claims. For goodness’ sake, I was born in Aza Kuwae, Chatan-san, Okinawa, but I am a natural born citizen of the United States (though it was … interesting … getting a passport as an adult). Put up or shut up.
Actually, the burden of proof is the other way around.
I’m not making any claims, Jeff. As I opened the post: I believe that Sen. Obama satisfies all of the constitutional requirements for the presidency. From my point of view it’s merely an interesting speculation. What would happen?
Jeff,
Let me guess, your parents were in the military and you were born at a military hospital! This would not apply to Barack Obama.
I want to believe him also, but at this point do you want to take the chance of him being elected president an not being a natural born citizen, which is required by law? I think not.
It seems to me that more vetting needs to take place to get to the bottom of this issue. Of course Obama could easily clear this up himself.
This sure looks like my brother’s birth certificate, issued by the same government agency (Hawaii’s Department of Health), I might add. I do not think this has been counted as a forgery.
http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
To PLS
After you check this link out let me know what you think of the birth certificate that Barack has presented.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm
He’s been caught in so many lies, it’s beginning to get very difficult to trust him on anything. Besides he is running for the office of The President of The United States of America, I believe we need o know.
Which President of the United States was believed to have been born in Canada, but never proven?
I’m sorry for that, Michael. As far as I’m concerned this is just idle curiosity—an intellectual exercise.
I was unclear. I did not mean that you, Dave, should put up or shut up, but that Johnson should.
Chester Arthur
It is indeed an idle curiousity. Barring some truly startling and bizarre revelation along the lines of Obama’s mother having renounced her citizenship before she gave birth to him AND his being born outside the United States, he’s most certainly eligible. As is McCain.
My law-talkin’ co-bloggers over at Stubborn Facts have extensively reviewed the question of what constitutes a “natural born” citizen for purposes of eligibility. Simply put without all the in-depth, if you were a citizen of the United States by right at birth, you are a “natural born” citizen regardless of where you were born. As Obama WAS born in Hawaii, he’s a “natural born” citizen even had both his parents Kenyan citizens at the time. Period.
As to who could credibly testify as to his birth, his grandmother is still alive and reportedly in full possession of her faculties, and was also reportedly there at the time. So, on to the HYPOTHETCIAL question:
If he’s not eligible what would happen? Would the entire Democratic Party primary process need to be re-started? I don’t think it’s reasonable that the nomination simply be handed to Hillary Clinton.
That is probably EXACTLY what would happen, and it would be imminently reasonable.
To remind everyone of the basics, neither Clinton nor Obama could or can claim the nomination on pledged delegates alone, though both have a very susbstantial number of same. For either to claim the nomination requires the support of a sufficient number of “superdelegates” AT THE CONVENTION. Were Obama disqualified by ineligibility to assume the office prior to the convention, the supers would simply switch their votes to Clinton. No problem at all. Were he disqualified after the covnention designated him as the nominee, it would be a bit more messy but still quite manageable to name another nominee.
Interesting (to me) trivia: Both parties have popular governors who are ineligible by condition of borth to be president or vice-president, Schwarzenegger and Granholm.
“Imminently”? Sheesh. “Eminently.” Need….more….caffiene….
It has become a question of truth! Please refer to the latest update:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm
In terms of the statement:
“The “embossed seal†in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal.?
My counter to this is, embossing stamps actually effects both sides of the document’s paper fabric by permeating or embedding in the fibers. There is a reason for this, which is that an embossed seal is by design extremely difficult, but not impossible, to emulate or falsify!
In the “Birth Certificate†(actually Certificate of Live Birth) Mr. Obama has offered on his web page there is no evidence of an embossed seal under close examination. If it had in fact been embossed you would see visible evidence, no matter how lightly stamped, there is none!
Furthermore, place of birth is also in question, as it is my understanding Hawaii allows for application of citizenship for persons not actually born in Hawaii.
Since Mr. Obama has a pattern with untruths and/or lies, I suggest he produce a certified copy of his birth certificate, which in one of his books he states he found years ago.
Until then this will always be a nagging issue for many people, unless it does surfaces again closer to the general election (October Surprise)!
Tully,
I referred to the link you provided and found your posting:
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Submitted by Tully on Fri, 05/02/2008 – 4:22pm.
I would reiterate that the First Congress was fairly explicit on exactly this point.
“And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States”. –First Congress, March 26th, 1790, 1 Stat. 103.
We know where they stood. Seems to me that there is more than one hurdle to overcome for anyone advancing the “Not a natural-born citizen” argument.
_____________________________________________________________
Just curious what your opinion would be in terms of the status of Barack Obama senior in regards to “resident in the Untied States” and how this would apply to Barack Obama II, if he were for discussion purposes born outside of the Unites States?
I don’t know enough about immigration law and current interpretation to answer that meaningfully. The law regarding the parental exceptions for citizenship has changed several times since 1790. BUT…If at any time during his lifetime the law would have qualified the (completely hypothetical foreign-born) BHO as a “natural born” citizen, then he is one.
Since both of BHO’s parents were attending the U of Hawaii at the time, and his mother’s parents lived there at the time, it all seems rather unlikely that BHO was NOT born at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu, as asserted. And that was US soil, establishing clear “natural born” jus soli citizenship.
Tully,
Don’t you find it curious that this whole controversy could be easily and simply resolved by Mr. Obama producing either his original Birth Certificate or a certified Certificate of Live Birth.
In terms of the Birth Certificate, Mr. Obama actually delineates he found his Birth Certificate, while visiting Hawaii in the past, in one of his books. Both books were published prior to June 2007, which is the date stamp found on the document he provided on his web page, which he is called a Birth Certificate (actually a uncertified Certificate of Live Birth, as it is missing the embossed seal).
To date, there is no documentation or any evidence that he was born at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu! This also could be simply cleared up by providing the above-mentioned.
I’m not saying Mr. Obama was not born in Hawaii, I would like to take his word for, but what evidence do we have that he was? I guess only his word for it!
Don’t you find it curious that this whole controversy could be easily and simply resolved by Mr. Obama producing either his original Birth Certificate or a certified Certificate of Live Birth.
No. And I don’t find the assorted claims in the least impressive. If someone wants to claim BHO is not a “natural born” citizen, it’s entirely up to them to produce positive evidence that he is not.
BTW, I’m not even remotely an Obama fan.
Tully,
Actually I disagree. Isn’t just the opposite true, the candidate must prove they are eligible for the office of POTUS? The “natural born” citizen is only a secondary issue and is at this point admittedly speculation.
The “Birth Certificate” produced by Mr Obama’s on his web page, has been established not to meet the standard of a legitimate document, without the embossed seal from the State of Hawaii and Registrar’s stamp and signature, which is not evident.
By the way, I’m no real fan of any of the candidates; however, I am a fan of the truth, honesty and full disclosure when it comes to a legal requirement.
It gets even more interesting!
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12944.htm
I don’t think this story is just going to die or go away!