Let’s stipulate right off the bat that many of the people living in African or Middle Eastern countries meet the definition of refugees under the 1951 Refugee Convention and that’s probably been true for the last 70 years. In Hungary a truck was found full of dead people, presumably being trafficked from Bulgaria through Hungary to Germany. 150 more dead people off the coast of Libya and that scene is replicated many times a week. It’s a humanitarian nightmare.
It’s also a legal thicket. Greece, Bulgaria, and Italy are practically on their backs as it is. They can’t accommodate all of the refugees even if they wanted to which, let’s face it, they don’t. When people from Libya or Syria or Afghanistan or Somalia arrive in Italy, Bulgaria, or Greece they’re refugees and the host countries can’t turn them away. However, Bulgaria, Italy, or Greece are just transit countries and when they leave those places for Germany or Sweden they’re economic migrants and Germany and Sweden can turn them away.
What’s the moral of this story? I think it’s that stability has value. We upset the apple cart, first in Iraq and then in Libya. And now the apples are pouring out all over the ground. It’s an awful situation.
The Libyan mess belongs to the Europeans, and they are reaping what they have sown. I blame President Obama for getting sucked into the mess, but that is as it affects the US. We will now see just how well the European social welfare model works, but I would begin to have my bags packed just in-case.
When the Europeans decide a group has worn out their welcome, they are usually rather efficient at disposing of them.
Did you hear about the English rock band that discovered a couple of refugees in their van as they were prepping to leave Calais for old Blighty? One of the guys was hiding in a guitar case! I’m assuming it was one of the large trunks for transporting multiple instruments, but it’s still funny. Ah, A href=”http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11823410/Rock-band-finds-illegal-immigrant-hidden-in-guitar-case.html”>here it is. Let’s see how long those internationalist type European lefties can hold out before they change their minds. And don’t forget, there’s going to be about four billion more where these came from in coming decades.
What’s the moral of this story? I think it’s that stability has value.
Bring back Saddam! Bring back that other guy who’s name we can’t spell!
…
I’ll note that stability has its uses everywhere, and the elites in Europe and the elites in America decided several decades ago against stability in favor of turning their own lands into dumps, just so long as they got to sit uncontested at the top of the trash heaps. Let’s see how the instability plays out now that it is becoming more visible here, what with the rise of Trump & Sanders, the riots, the lose of control of large parts of our own country. I just hope to live long enough to see some of these assholes up against the wall, no doubt wondering why the dumb stupid masses don’t see them as lovers of the people.
We also might have thought about not supporting DAESH in Syria.
We also might have thought about not supporting DAESH in Syria.
We were opposed to DAESH before we were for DAESH while still being against DAESH?
The rise of ISIS (Sorry, just can’t get behind the DASEH thing), and our response of being for it in some places and against it in other places and effectively allying ourselves with enemies while alienating friends all at the same time should be the final proof, if any were still needed, that we have no idea what the Hell we’re doing in the MENA region. Time to pull out, batten down the hatches, and stop importing more refugees.
“I am your king.”
“Well, I didn’t vote for you.”
The United States is not responsible for all of the refugees in the world through some combination of small actions or inaction. In Libya and Syria in particular, the refugee crisis preceded any U.S. intervention. These are brutal, oppressive regimes that foment rebellion and cascade into indiscriminate government retribution.
People were fleeing Libya before outside involvement. And one of the reasons for outside intervention in Libya was to stem the refugee crisis. The U.S. does not have a policy in Syria and if it does it is not effectuating one. Syrians are not fleeing to Europe because the United States drew a line around chemical weapons and is refusing to attack ISIS in Syria.
Toughy, but seems the west has decided to extend Christian charity and open their homelands to Moslems. Wish I could live fifty more years to see how this works out.
It’s heartbreaking. I’ve been focused on Africa for my job the past couple of years and it’s extraordinary what people go through in order to try to make a better life for themselves or to avoid violence.
I think the US and Europe could do a lot more and be a lot more proactive in terms of assisting people in the regions where they live.
It’s not “the west”. It’s a handful of elites. And if it’s Christianity it’s cultural Christianity because particularly northern Europeans haven’t been practicing Christians for most of the last century. I remember when I was working in Germany in a nominally very Catholic part of the country. When I went to church not only was I the only male but I was the only person under 60 and that was 40 years ago.
What are referred to as “right wing” parties (which by U. S. standards would be left wing parties) have been rising in influence fast. Not just in France but in Britain, Germany, and Italy, too. I don’t know how the situation will resolve itself but I expect that Europe will be in substantial social turmoil for the rest of my life.
Christian communities in the ME are being gutted – sometimes literally. Very soon they will be like the Jewish communities – essentially nonexistent. As Dave notes, the elites don’t seem to care.
I don’t think your account stands up to scrutiny, PD, see here. Most of the world’s refugees are either from the Middle East or Africa. Despite increases in the populations in both of those areas their numbers had been declining until the Iraq War. Since then their numbers have been rising steadily. I find it difficult to account for the large number of Afghan refugees since our invasion of Afghanistan in any other way.
Syrian refugees haven’t been a steadily rising number over decades. There has been a huge spike in refugees from Syria over the last few years.
I’m not saying U. S. actions are the only reason for the flood of refugees but I do think they’re a factor and maybe the efficient cause. Something depends on what you think has happened in Syria over the last seven or eight years. Here’s what I think has happened.
Syria was destabilized by a huge influx of Iraqi refugees during the Aughts who left Iraq due to the violence that ensued their after the U. S. invasion and occupation. When rebellion broke out in Syria, Assad would have put it down but for the outside aid the rebels received from the U. S., Europe, and Saudi Arabia. If the U. S. objective in Syria had been stability rather than regime change and we had put the arm on the Saudis as was within our ability, I don’t think there would be millions of Syrians fleeing the country now.
Speaking of elites, anyone remember Anders Behring Breivik ?
The Europeans, with our help, intervened in Libya to try to stop a flood of refugees they thought they would get with the killing that was going on. As a best case, I think you can say they just delayed it.
As to Syria, it looks like emigration stated to pick up around 2007-2008.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=sy&v=27
Steve