Question

Did the election of Donald Trump to the presidency foment the greatest crisis in American political history? Discuss.

15 comments… add one
  • Guarneri Link

    Could you elaborate a bit? The question seems absurd on its face.

  • PD Shaw Link

    “The greatest crisis in American political history is certainly the inability to recognize the greatest crisis in American political history.” — A. Lincoln.

  • Modulo Myself Link

    Sure, with a heavy emphasis on ‘political’. The people who elected him were largely reacting, it seems now, to extremely ‘political’ things. How arrogant Obama appeared, an ad one didn’t like, a mean thing a Democrat said, angry college kids you read about in articles targeted to your demographic. It’s not like anything real was occurring. Property was not being seized. Civil war was not spreading through exurbs and rural areas. Christians were not being packed off into reeducation camps. You can be uncharitable and say that many of his voters wanted things to be worse–that they enjoy persecution fantasies about Sharia and birth certificates and transgender bathrooms. Regardless, he brought in a specific type of attitude to the world, one that to me is completely fixated on politics and yet completely inept at understanding or caring about other human beings. It’s not a crisis yet, but let’s see what happens if the Democrats win back the House and Senate.

  • I would say that, based on what has happened so far, the answer to that question is a tentative “no.”

    Obviously, the Election of 1860 and what preceded and followed it belong at the top of that list. The Election of 1800 was a crisis of a different variety. And then, of course, there’s Watergate.

    Could we be headed that way with Trump? Based on the events of just over a year now, it’s possible that we’re headed that way but we’re not there yet.

    And I say that as someone who has been a critic of Trump’s since long before he entered the 2016 Presidential race.

  • Andy Link

    If there is a political crisis, and I suspect there is, Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

  • Modulo Myself:

    I think that’s probably the best comment you’ve ever made here.

    Andy:

    Give the man a see-gar. I’d go one step farther and say that if there is a political crisis, it’s one that’s been in progress for more than 80 years. Short version: I blame it on the Congress.

    Guarneri:

    The claim was made that I was ignoring the biggest political crisis in American history. For that to be true it needs to be the biggest political crisis in American history.

    Andy:

    My tentative hypothesis is that Trump habitually asserts as true what he wishes were true. What does he actually think? I have no idea.

  • Roy Lofquist Link

    Well, it’s certainly a problem for the Borg.

  • Gray Shambler Link

    “My tentative hypothesis is that Trump habitually asserts as true what he wishes were true. What does he actually think? I have no idea.”

    What he thinks is that over the top positive rhetoric is a successful tactic for him. It’s so well ingrained that he no longer doubts himself, if he ever did.

    I’d also add that I thought the election of socialist, communist, radical Muslim sympathizer Barrack Obama was a crisis. Turns out that separation of powers works, his agenda fell flat. So, no, Trump will not turn the country on its head either.

    In fact, I suspect he will not run for a second term, out of boredom, perhaps.

  • Gray Shambler:

    In partial support of your comment I think that any concerns about the president or the role of the president should be laid at the feet of the Congress. Under our system as constructed Congress is extremely powerful, the president has little power aside from over foreign policy and the day-to-day management of the federal government and military, and the Supreme Court has no power. Congress could reclaims its prerogatives tomorrow if it had the will to do so but most of today’s Congressmen would prefer what they have now: life tenure with little accountability while the executive and the courts do their work for them.

  • Andy Link

    Dave,

    Is it really true that you have your head in the sand, as someone suggested?

  • steve Link

    No, this is far from our greatest crisis. It may be our greatest stupidity when you see people who really believe stuff like ” socialist, communist, radical Muslim sympathizer Barrack Obama” or believe that outright lies are just positive rhetoric.

    Steve

  • Is it really true that you have your head in the sand, as someone suggested?

    I believe that I am by nature more homicidal than the individual who made that claim. If I hadn’t cultivated self-control and a mild demeanor I’d’ve been in jail years ago. I was just discussing this with my wife this morning. I suspect that as most people walk down the streets they don’t look at each person they encounter and calculate how they’d subdue them if attacked.

    I may have a different experience of human nature as well. I haven’t found that you persuade anyone by yelling insults at them at the top of your voice.

  • PD Shaw Link

    My account was hacked by the silly side of my brain. I think these are the greatest American political crisis (in chronological order):

    1798 — French (and to some extent British) attempts to meddle in American politics to further their war against each other, turns the first party system cancerous; political disagreements become matters of treason.

    1833 — Bank War culminates with Andrew Jackson defying Congressional legislation by ordering the Secretary of Treasury to remove the deposits from the US Bank, who refuses and is fired to be replaced by Roger Taney, who removes the funds to the pet banks. Congress was not only unable to defend its institutional prerogatives in the midst of partisan conflict (leading to the Imperial Presidency), but by not impeaching Taney, he would have a role to play in . . .

    1860 — The Civil War.

    1876 — Presidential election marred by claims of fraud and voter intimidation on both sides. Constitutional system appears incapable of resolving the dispute with any legitimacy. Sliding towards potential civil war, a compromise is written on the backs of the subjects of the actual civil war.

    1972 — A break into the DNC headquarters at the Watergate Complex reveals pattern of abuses of power and subsequent attempted cover-ups, which finally forced the first President to resign under virtual certainty of impeachment.

  • Guarneri Link

    Dave

    I see. Thanks. The very first thing that came to mind was the Civil War and I had to pick myself up off the ground.

    Trump has quite a list of personal and executive faults, but he isn’t the source of a US political crisis. His election has certainly fostered hysteria, though, and perhaps the crescendo to a long present crisis in the profession of journalism.

    From where I sit that hysteria simply derives from policy differences. But those policy differences are no more than that. They are not an existential threat to the nation. You could make the same end of the world claims about Obama and Obamacare. I think we will eventually look back and realize he was simply a catalyst threatening the old order. His success or failure in that is an open issue. Characterizing him as the devil is just the beast reacting to a sword being stuck in its backside.

  • TastyBits Link

    @Dave Schuler

    I suspect that as most people walk down the streets they don’t look at each person they encounter and calculate how they’d subdue them if attacked.

    I also do an assessment as to the likeliest & greatest threat. I rarely have my hands in my pockets, and depending upon distance, they will be above my waist. (I usually play with my wedding ring.)

    I do not need to have my back to the wall, but I do want visual access to the attack paths. I want to be able to quickly stand at all times.

    For you, I doubt that any of this is unknown.

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