In a post over at OTB noting the surprising finding that most college students don’t borrow to finance their education, Doug Mataconis links to this study. Check Figures 5 through 7. Somewhat belying Doug’s post but also unsurpringly they illustrate that the lower the student’s family income the more likely he or she is to borrow and that students from lower income families may borrow as much as 40% of the cost of their educations.
As I’ve said before I find it unconscionable that public higher education isn’t dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, costs cut substantially, and offered at low or no cost just as primary education is.
A diploma isn’t the only factor in securing your first job. For many there’s such a thing as contacts or pull including the influence of that diploma being from an elite school. I think it would be interesting to see a chart that illustrated the pay rate of the graduate’s first jobs by family income level. My guess is that the rule of thumb probably is something like the more you owe, the less likely you are to be able to pay it off.
In my own case I paid for college by having a scholarship, working, and borrowing in about equal amounts. My scholarship paid for my tuition. I covered my room, board, books, and other expenses by a combination of work and borrowing. I worked between 35 and 50 hours a week as an undergraduate and graduate student. Once I left school and started working a full-time job I repaid my college loans on an accelerated basis in three or four years. I hate debt.
So how do you pare the costs of higher education? Many have reasoned that the easier government makes it for a young person to secure educational loans etc., the more universities raise their tuition, to ever higher levels, to rake in this available money. Also, colleges now are catering to a self-indulged kind of education — where there are more extras, many recreational, to lure students to a certain school, which then charges more, and the vicious circle only repeats revolving faster and becoming more complicated.
While I didn’t have a scholarship, I did work throughout college and paid for most of my education myself. Like you I also am uncomfortable with debt, and would rather go without than to encumber myself with financial burdens hovering over me. But, today it’s all different. In our business we have applications from 20 and 30 year olds having credit scores impacted by massive school debt. Sometimes I wonder how they can ever get out from under this financial stone on their backs!
At Reed I had a scholarship. I paid for the state tuitions myself. At SMU, I worked my way through drinking one day a week with a benefactor.
How did you like Reed, Janis?
It was ’74-’77. Or ’73-’76. A long time ago.
I thought it was too small and too incestuous. Even now, there are only 1400 students. Then there were about 1100.
I graduated from a magnet school in Dallas in a class of 966.
The academics were fine. But I felt out of place in such a pocket of privilege. We’re talking Ocean Spray heirs, NYT editors’ children, that sort of thing.
Not that they weren’t nice people. But I was just a little girl from South Oak Cliff with a scholarship. I think I’d been a National Merit Semifinalist or something. Those papers are in the attic.
@jan
I think this dynamic is the same as healthcare and housing. More government money leads to more demand leads to higher prices. Rinse and repeat.
The various colleges & departments need students for funding, and they are worse than telemarketers trying to get students into their curriculum. They make these worthless degrees sound like “the best thing since sliced bread”. You need to know how to parse their speech.
I was astounded.
SMU was right-sized for me, about 10,000 including grad students.
And, Jan, now that I think about it, I thought the professors could be better at Reed. Of course, how were they going to pay them with such a small base?
The bar none, best and most interesting teacher I ever had was John Lewis at SMU, near PhD in English, Harvard, 1968. He never bothered to print his dissertation.
Enjoyed reading your reply, Janice. The reason I asked was our son had his mind set on Reed. Somewhere he had heard they didn’t care about grades, or something like that. His philosophy is learning without the pressure of a lettered outcome. I’m not going to enlarge on that one. Bottom line is that it never happened.
But, whenever I hear about Reed and someone going there, I like to ask their opinion of it. Steve Jobs went to Reed, dropped out, couch-surfing and sitting-in on classes, which comprised his academic experience. If my son had gone, that probably would have been his fate as well.
My college years were a mixture of places. 2 years at a community college, almost got my degree at UCLA, but exited one quarter before graduation because of a bad case of rebellion. A year later I went back, picking up the pieces of my nursing program at a state college, finishing out my degree with good grades, once I developed a better attitude about my goals and where I wanted to go in life.
Ah the vicissitudes of trying to figure out life in your early twenties!
Had to be ’74-’77. I was 16 in ’73. I went to Reed at 17.
I’d rather go through Red Indian torture than go through my 20s again.
TastyBits
There are a number of articles spilling out about the unhealthy ratio of government funding to higher and higher tuition fees being charged by colleges. Financially, It has become a parasitic relationship, whereas these institutions of learning seem to be feeding off their eager prey —> students. That may be a wee bit melodramatic. But, you get the picture.
“I’d rather go through Red Indian torture than go through my 20s again.”
That’s a good line…..
I had good times and bad ones in my 20’s. Getting married young was one of the positive events, in that we were able to enjoy goofiness and burning the candle at both ends, banking substantial shared memories, as we matured and learned the ropes, often times the hard way.
One of my brothers did that. By the time he and his wife were fifty their boys had their master’s degrees and they were free people.
That’s always been my problem. I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up.
You want to lead a serious economics discussion group. Sorry to diverge so badly.
People are willing to pay large amounts of money to go to the right pre-school so they can get their kids into the right kindergarten. Given that most students dont borrow any money, and the problem exists when govt is not subsidizing education, I dont think student loans are the only part of the problem, and maybe not even the main part.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/14/nyregion/as-ranks-of-gifted-soar-in-ny-fight-brews-for-kindergarten-slots.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1346702518-izu6IUuXmsnrpPeyt3kXOA
Steve
My experience was similar. After changing majors a few times, I finally dropped out of college in the middle of my second senior year and joined the Navy which, in hindsight, was the smart move. I finished up a year or two later. A few years after that I started graduate school, got seriously disillusioned with the program, and quit. I might get back to it someday.
My wife, thanks to her intellect, received full-rides all the way through to her PhD (which isn’t complete yet, she still has to defend) from the military.
Your mention of getting into the right pre-school hit a nerve.
When our son was going into kindergarten the talk of the town was this fabulous private school, mid town, that cost a fortune. We didn’t really have the money, so my dear father-in-law offered to chip in. With a great deal of energy and 20 referrals (2 arms and a leg thrown in) we got our son into that school…and, what a nightmare it turned out to be. It was the kindergarten from H**l, and the up front money was like a down payment as they wanted donations on top of that.
We lasted one year, and then went public all the way after that. It was such a relief to be out from under the financial and emotional stress of a private education, where all the children are expected to have perfect behavior. Our son comes in an irregular size, so he didn’t fit in, and neither did we.
“I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up.”
Does that ever happen? Growing up is what I’m referring to.
“That’s always been my problem. I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up.”
You’ve used that line before. Heh. I recycle mine, too. But seriously, you apparently enjoy your real job. Its lucrative. You run a great blog to provide additional intellectual interest.
What else?
If you want, ill teach you to play golf. Ultimately, its a strategic game if you can execute. Oh, wait, that might garner criticism and suggestions concerning your, um, “vocal talents…..”
I remember my dad looking at his hands as he grew older, and saying I am getting older on the outside, but why do I feel so much younger on the inside?
This question comes back to me from time to time, and I can’t help but consider that the soul is the substance of our being, the receptacle of our lessons, learned and unlearned, memories, experiences, and the part of us that remains in a constant state of wonderment and expectation of something better around the corner —> hence the inner feeling of being vulnerable, unseasoned and ‘child-like.’
“I remember my dad looking at his hands as he grew older, and saying I am getting older on the outside, but why do I feel so much younger on the inside?”
Heh.. My line is, I simply refuse to get old. If you think young, you are young. I don’t know how old you are, but just never concede. Life is too short for concessions to advancing age.
On the other hand, my c7 – t1 disc is acting up again. Left side of left hand now almost completely numb. I know people are sick and tired of hearing about my golf, but I won another club tournament this weekend. But I think I might have my third cervical spine surgery in sights. Otherwise, no more golf. It just sucks. Not again…….
You need a little Gaelic Storm, Drew:
http://youtu.be/Xt0H2xd_v2g
Drew,
Sorry to hear about your back problems. Pain is so fatiguing. Chronic pain, though, is both fatiguing and frustrating. Have you ever tried any alternative medical treatments, like say acupuncture. Sometimes it helps. There is also a treatment, more in the chiropractic realm, called ‘active release.’ My husband broke some ribs years ago, and then re-broke them causing years of pain. He went to a practitioner, schooled in this method, and after 5 treatments he was immeasurably better.
BTW, congrats on your golf tournament. Although I don’t have the patience for the game, I admire those who do, as it takes a lot of focus, patience, and self-discipline to participate in this sport. Even though it involves exercise, I look at it as more of a mental sport.
That isn’t actually what this blob is about. It’s about whatever interests me at the time.
I tend to post incessantly on whatever I think is the most important topic of the day. In 2006 you would probably have thought this was a foreign policy blog. In 2009 you might have concluded that it was a healthcare policy blog. I think that the economy and, particularly, the long-term trajectory of the economy is today’s most important topic.
But I also post on whatever strikes my fancy. That includes cooking, opera, dogs, family history, and archaeology. One of my dog posts still gets more traffic than anything else I’ve written.
Nice dogs. Tally has a lovely smile.
She still has a lovely but mischievous smile. Yesterday she turned 14 years 5 months. By Samoyed standards that is extremely elderly. We treat each additional day with her as a blessing.
How closely related are the Samoyids to the Greater Pyrenees? Sally in Natchez reminds me of your dogs, but bigger, and with a broader head.
Jan
Because my father was a doctor I have traditionally been constitutionally opposed to chiropractic. But I’m getting desperate. And to your point, yes, the chronic impairment and pain of disc problems can really wear on you.
Thanks, Janis. music is a passion.
I can only tell you the prevailing wisdom. There are quite a number of breeds, all large, white herding dogs with origins in a band that extends from Central Asia to Spain. These include Samoyeds, Great Pyrenees, Kuvaszok, and Turkish Akbash dogs. It may be that they’re all related as some people believe or that they were all developed independently—similar breeds were developed for similar functions.
The long-term Siberian experiment in selective breeding of foxes strongly suggests to me that the latter explanation may be the correct one. White in the coat seems to be a byproduct of breeding for friendliness to human beings, something desireable in a herding dog.
It’s not generally known but there are only two breeds that aren’t in the Herding Group that are allowed to compete in AKC Herding Trials: Samoyeds and Rottweilers. Our first boy, Qila, now deceased, had a couple of herding titles.
There are more and more genetic studies of dogs being done and I suspect we’ll know the true answer to your question pretty soon.
And FYI for Drew, my current fave in music is La Bottine Souriante (The Smiling Boot). Quebecois:
http://youtu.be/qMc-6MVEHF8
La Bottine Souriante’s “Cordial” CD is a lot of fun.