RealClearPolitics has its own analysis of the “tribes” of America:
“Every difference of opinion,†Thomas Jefferson warned in his first inaugural address, “is not a difference of principle.†Speaking to his countrymen after an election every bit as bitter as the one that put Donald J. Trump in the White House, Jefferson was trying to soothe the reigning animosity between the nation’s two dominant political parties. “We are all Republicans,†he added. “We are all Federalists.â€
Not anymore. In 21st century America, any notion that election results end the argument, however temporarily, is an anachronism. So, too, is the conceit that a nation this large and diverse is divided neatly along “50-50†lines, with half of America’s 253 million adults supporting Democrats, and the other half backing Republicans.
The “tribes” into which RCP divides Americans are:
- The Resistance (28%)
- MAGA (the Trump base) (12%)
- Traditional Republicans (14%)
- The Detached (24%)
- Independent Blues (24%)
I’m probably reasonably considered to be in the last group. I also think they’re overestimating the size of The Resistance somewhat. They’re more loud than numerous.
Don’t see an online quiz, but it simply looks like RCP divided the political world into:
Democrats
Pro-Trump Republicans
Anti-Trump Republicans
High Independents
Low Independents
You’d think one of the basic requirements of competent political reporting is a reasonably accurate taxonomy of the electorate, but these different slices done by different organizations are all over the place.
Given the violent or near violent physical actions (eg Portland) being taken I’d say loud is an understatement, even a sanitized description, even if the numbers involved are clearly relatively few.
Drew- There is a steady stream of violence committed by those on the right that doesnt get covered much. We are tired of hearing about someone getting shoved at an abortion clinic. It is a dog bites man story. Someone shoves a Trump supporter and it gets amplified by Drudge and everyone knows about. Also, remember than when it comes to actual killings, the right tends to stay ahead on that number. So, I think actual violence is committed by tiny groups on both sides. What is bad is that then people try to claim that everyone on the same team is violent, kind of what you are doing here. I assure you that neither I nor anyone I know is going to beat up conservative.
I would have put the Resistance at a lower number and MAGA higher, but that is probably my bias. That said, I am having a hard time sorting out who really supports Trump and who supports his agenda just because they are a Republican. The criticism of Trump we had during the election by the traditional right has been fading I think. Have they given up or are they now Trump supporters?
Steve
Steve
If you can produce evidence of Democrat politicians being chased out of restaurants show it. If you can produce evidence of car drivers being screamed at and their cars pounded on show it. If you can produce evidence of Republican politicians exhorting crowds to “get in their faces†or “kick them†show it. If you can produce evidence of Republican activists kicking people show it. If you can produce evidence of leftist speakers requiring body guards or being chased off or denied speaking engagements show it.
The notion of a “steady stream†of such behavior buried by the usual media suspects, what, out of the goodness of their hearts, is just ludicrous.
How quickly you forget the Town Hall meetings over Obamacare. The alt right guy running over and killing someone. The Republican candidate hitting a journalist, and yes, the abortion protestors are at it, vandalizing, intimidation and death threats. (Can go find the reports on this if you want but easy to find. Not something you would see in your daily reading I bet.) It has been at least a year since they killed anyone, so I guess we can be grateful for that. Sorry, but that is your base at work. Disabuse yourself of the idea that you don’t have bad people on your team. This is stuff off the top of my head i don’t have to go look up. Then we have Trump exhorting his supporters to beat people up and he will pay for it. Our POTUS.
Steve
Trump encourages violence at rallies:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jul/05/sarah-huckabee-sanders/has-donald-trump-never-promoted-or-encouraged-viol/
Man beaten at Trump rally:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/22/black-activist-punched-at-donald-trump-rally-in-birmingham/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ec3e8c410ea6
Another man beaten at Trump rally:
http://time.com/4254801/donald-trump-protest-violence-video/
Here are Proud Boys attacking protestors. And yes, if any flake who makes a Republican miss their dinner is the fault of Democrats, every fascist is the fault of Republicans:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bc20d60e4b0bd9ed55a96ee
Steve,
The 2010 Obamacare town hall meetings you refer to were raucous and loud, but no police escorts were needed to safely walk dem politicians out to their car. The opposite happened in 2017, when people like Rep McClintock (CA R) had to have a security detail after his townhalls where he was “flamed” and harassed by organized leftists. The “alt right” person, who ran over and killed a woman blocking the street, was a “mentally ill” young man, rather than a deranged activist. Also, citing abortion clinic protests as an example of R violence, is an entirely different matter from current day political assaults, as active opposition to abortion has been ongoing since the passage of Roe v Wade.
As for the last, say decade, of protests the dems have been well organized and funded by a myriad of groups, many of them under the umbrella of Soros’s Open Society Foundation. I call this man the “Chaos Broker,” who is well documented to have funneled gigantic sums of money to an assortment of protests leading up to the 2016 election, the Ferguson Fires, BLM, Antifa, move-on projects, and the over-the-top hysteria at the Kavanaugh hearings. During these hearings, R congress people were spit on, tormented, stalked, had to be provided daily Capitol Police escorts, and even sent envelops of material said to be ricin. This “evil” old man, who advocates for open borders and unregulated drugs, never passes up or ceases to see opportunities in creating continuing, contentious events — the latest, participating in funding the caravan walking from Central America to the US.
In fact, R’s are not even close to creating the non-stop havoc, misstatements about their political opponents, violence that dems engage in, just like they are not close to collecting the enormous dollar donations dems do time and time again — for the 2018 midterms having raised over a billion dollars, compared to the R’s $750,000,000, for the congressional races. Last, but far from least, on campuses all over the country, conservatives are, more often than not, not allowed to speak at publicly held venues, put up outside tables with conservative literature, or wear clothing, or say anything that counters or separates themselves from the insulated and politically correct ideology that now appears to dominate academia.
In fact, I just don’t see how anyone can compare, with any other major party, the on-slough of mob intimidation and obstruction that now seems to be the new norm for democrats. Â
I’d rather just condemn political violence generally than attempt to engage in pointless score-keeping about which side is worse.
When you’re using the vileness of your political opponents as your justification for political violence you have to keep score. However, the end still does not justify the means and it will continue not to do so no matter how many times one claims otherwise.
One more point: it’s incredibly stupid for people who believe they’re “punching a Nazi” to engage in political violence. Their opponents are better-trained and better-armed. IMO this is yet another case of the drunk searching for his keys under a lamppost. Attacking real violent right-wingers is too dangerous so you attack non-violent right-wingers.
Ben,
The black protester, punched at an early pre-election Trump rally, resulted in both being arrested. At their court hearing the older white man apologized to the man he had struck. They both ended up shaking hands, were amicable to each other, and the incident resolved itself peacefully.
Some of the other rallies, where Trump demonstrated his muscular bravado, by calling for protesters to be thrown out etc., fully exemplified his in-your-face, New Yorker tendencies. Nonetheless, however abrasive and unpresidential his “words” have been, and still are, I’ve seen far worse “actions” happen outside his pre-election rallies, where people entering and exiting the venue were pushed, yelled at, spit on, bloodied, and in a CA rally cars trying to leave after the rally were surrounded, dented and vandalized. And, during the 2 years of Trump’s presidency, it has been non-stop, physical push-back by dem supported groups such as Antifa. IMO, though, it has been the Kavanaugh disruptions and misbehavior that really went over the top — at least with me it did. I came away from that event feeling forever disgusted with the dems.
There is a pointlessness to political score keeping, for sure. However, as acts of political violence and antagonistic behavior grows, unabated, it will first bring out retaliation by those with thuggish natures, followed by milquetoast people who will simply have had enough.
jan- “Also, citing abortion clinic protests as an example of R violence, is an entirely different matter from current day political assaults, as active opposition to abortion has been ongoing since the passage of Roe v Wade.”
I see. You just discount years of ongoing assault and intimidation because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Of course the Democrats are worse if we dont include any violence or intimidation they commit. My guy was mentally ill, yet let a mentally ill Democrat commit violence and it is because they are a Democrat. My guy apologized. Nice, but he was still violent. And jan, we have this thing called google. Democrats did have to be escorted out by police. Politicians were shoved and shouted down. Just because you forget or dont know how to look it up, it still happened.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/health-care-town-halls-turn-violent-in-tampa-and-st-louis
Look, my point is not that Democrats are better, but that I find it laughable that you would claim Republicans are better. Both sides have a fringe which is occasionally willing to commit violence. AFAICT this is not balanced noticeably towards one side or the other. I suspect that at any given moment in time one side might be worse, but over the course of years it is hard to detect a real difference. I think it would be a lot better to just condemn violence and intimidation by anyone. That we not try to smear our opposition by claiming that they all must believe in violent because of the tiny minority that does commit violence.
Steve
Steve, what I’m saying is that fringes on either side of the political spectrum seem unhealthy and destructive to me. However, the fringes on the left seem bigger, better financed, causing more mayhem more frequently, and are thus far more dangerous than the right fringe.
Also, there are negatives on both sides of an abortion issue that has gone on, unresolved, almost 50 years. To have this much controversy, though, spanning so many years, over a decision that many see as was ill-rendered, including the woman whose name was on that decision, seems innately flawed. What about the Kermit Gosnell case, where dozens of live babies were killed at birth, and minority women, poverty stricken, were given shoddy care. The MSM was absent at the trial of Gosnell, with no media seated in cordoned off sections of the courtroom. Now, the crowdfunded movie is being equally dismissed by critics and media alike. The liberal media only gives news they want the public to hear.
Guarneri: If you can produce evidence of car drivers being screamed at and their cars pounded on show it. If you can produce evidence of Republican politicians exhorting crowds to “get in their faces†or “kick them†show it. If you can produce evidence of Republican activists kicking people show it. If you can produce evidence of leftist speakers requiring body guards or being chased off or denied speaking engagements show it.
You’re kidding right? How about a Republican actually winning election even after he body slammed a journalist. Just yesterday, Trump congratulated that Republican for having done so, and this just after the brutal torture and murder of a Washington Post journalist. Trump is hardly on the fringe. He is the leader of the Republican Party.
Someone isn’t paying attention.
It is clear that the Democrat Party is actively organizing violent mobs and individuals to attack and intimidate Republicans. In recent history and today, virtually all political violence is committed by Democrats. All the actual and attempted Presidential assassinations were committed by leftists. All of them. All leftist movements are ideologically violent. They endorse, encourage, incite and justify violence. Read their manifestos. From Marx and Engles onwards they all want a violent revolution.
I find the notion of citing the one off goons, on either side of the political spectrum, unfortunate. I know of only one side, and clearly a recent development, systemically attacking politicians, advocating attacking politicians and threatening politicians. See: the recent issues surrounding Collins, the MN pair, HRC, Maxine Waters, Cruz, Bondi, Sanders, Portland, Holder…….
I’m sure there’s a steady stream of stories about Republican attacks on Democrats……….if those darned media weren’t always protecting them. (Snicker).
“However, the fringes on the left seem bigger, better financed, causing more mayhem more frequently, and are thus far more dangerous than the right fringe.”
Because you are influenced by the right wing media*. Look, I think you are often wrong, but I dont think you are a liar or insincere. You said that no Democrats had to be escorted out of a meeting by police during the Two Halls over the ACA. I knew that wasn’t true and linked the article proving it. Everything you talk about now was going on during the Town Hall era, you just didn’t read about it in your media. Then you just discount, like Drew, anything you dont like. You dont want to include abortion protestors. Ok, then I get to pick some fringe groups I domino want to include. There is no real difference, just a fact. There may be periods when one side is worse than the other, but it always tips back over.
Drew- How about praising a politician for attacking someone? You left that off your list. Oh, that was Trump, no wonder you left that off.
*There is currently a big campaign on the right pushing the “left is violent” meme. From my friends and family I get dozens of these articles every week. I read a lot of them. What I notice is that they mostly recycle the same stories.
Steve
Steve, I think there’s one variable we do share – each of us is surrounded by people who have almost rabid POVs from our own. For you it’s a family who, from what you post, is far right. For me, it’s both family and close friends who subscribe to far left ideology. I don’t know how you react or process these differences. For me, I usually neither battle nor rebutt, as I don’t want to lose long term relationships dear to me. Nevertheless, some of the political intemperance I do hear kind of galls me, making me even more stalwart in the opinions I share on sites like this one.
BTW, I abhor any/all anti abortion violence. However, I equally think late term abortions are akin to murder.
Not me, I love to argue. (Wife and I have helped with speech and debate team for years. Really, I can probably imitate a conservative better than most conservatives at this point.) Where I am careful is at work. I once made the mistake of speaking up at one of our smaller hospitals where all of the surgeons are just short of neo-Nazis. They wanted to get rid of me just because I criticized W.
Steve
Some supporters of abortion rights do not distinguish between “anti-abortion violence” and expressing the view that late term abortions are akin to murder.
Steve, Don’t get me wrong, as I love to argue too. But, the environment now is just too toxic for even cautious debate. My circle of friends are self-described socialists and Marxists. They are wonderful, colorful, artistic people, totally anchored in their own mindsets. They know I’m a bit different from them, but we dignify our times together by not getting tangled up in heated discussions that will not end well.
My husband’s best friend, though, is one exception to being apolitical with friends — a life-long democrat who loves a good battle of wits. We have had hours of passionate back-and-forths, and usually at the end of it says, ‘I ‘m just glad Jeanie wasn’t a part of this, as she would never talk to you again!” He’s referring to his girlfriend.
Another thing we might agree on is that I was not a supporter of GWB during his 2nd term.
“However, I equally think late term abortions are akin to murder.”
Viability occurs at a much lower age now. People are defining late term down to 20 weeks, but let’s go with 24 weeks. I can guarantee you that the physiologic trespass of a C section at full term is much more than that of an abortion at 24 weeks, so I have a hard time calling it murder for those women who have real health issues. Still remember a lady with Eisenmengers die during a section.
Steve
Health issues is a given for termination of a pregnancy. I didn’t think I had to make a point of that exception. I also believe (but am not sure) that most European countries cite 20 weeks as a marker designating a late term pregnancy, making it more difficult to have an abortion, unless there are health problems in the mix.
“If you can produce evidence of Democrat politicians being chased out of restaurants show it.”
From the Daily Caller(no less):
Thanks Sam, and I added the documentation above that the same stuff happened during the Tea Party response to the ACA. But you know what? Drew and jan are inundated with right wing propaganda so they will remain convinced somehow their side never did/does this stuff.
Steve