I saw this on ABC’s This Week:
During this Sunday’s edition of ABC’s This Week, Daily Beast writer Andrew Sullivan claimed that if Republican nominee Mitt Romney wins back Florida and Virginia in the upcoming 2012 presidential election, especially due to the white vote, then the South’s electoral map will look exactly like the pro-slavery United States Confederacy during the Civil War.
My immediate reaction to it was that to Mr. Sullivan Indiana must not exist. Indiana went for Bush in 2004, for Obama in 2008, and in all likelihood will go for Romney in 2012. I would go so far as to say that I cannot imagine Virginia being carried by Romney without Indiana being carried by Romney. I also would find it surprising if Virginia and Indiana could be carried by Romney without Ohio being carried by him, too.
So, if Florida and Virginia are carried by Romney (without Indiana, Ohio, and maybe even Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Iowa being carried by Romney), it’ll be exactly like the Confederacy. Except for being completely different.
That reminds me of a story I may have told here before. A man moved to a small town in Maine when he was just 8 weeks old. He lived in that small Maine town all of his life, never going more than five miles out of town. When he died at 90 they put on his tombstone: “He was almost one of us”.
Andrew Sullivan has become more vile than any other commentator on the national scene. Someone needs to tell him that (a) we’re not living in an all gay junior high school, (b) that the uterus is not inherently evil and (c) that Obama is not his boyfriend.
“then the South’s electoral map will look exactly like the pro-slavery United States Confederacy during the Civil War.”
Is this untrue? (Note he is saying the South’s map, not the political party, ie the GOP. This actually doesnt seem all that profound. It seems like the South has voted together in a bloc before, but maybe not. ) I should note that I growing up I spent a lot of time in southern Indiana. Strong racial feelings in the area back then. Had several teachers wearing Klan stuff at school.
Who listens to Sullivan, really?
Steve needs to be medicated these days. He’s developing Reynolds Disease.
Is this untrue?
How about, Is it relevant? Sullivan is of the opinion that the only reason a white person would not vote for Obama is because they’re Klansmen. It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Obama’s performance, because Obama has been the most perfect human being that ever lived. (Seriously, Sullivan will not admit that Obama has ever been untruthful or wrong about anything, except that maybe Obama thought too much of the rest of us.)
And of course Sullivan’s whole point is rubbish anyway, as why did Obama win those states (FL, NC, VA) last time around? Did all those folks just suddenly lose their racism for just one election? He probably believes in the Magic Negro.
George Will has to wonder what he’s done to deserve this. From David Brinkley to a man that obsesses about smearing the 12 year-old and infant children of his ideological opponents, it’s been a long slow downhill ride.
Well, if you want to get technical, there’s Virginia. In addition to Indiana, one could add Kentucky.
But, like Icepick, the issue I have is relevance. It’s not exactly news that regions often vote similarly. So what? Sullivan is trying to draw a connection between the entire south (perhaps) going for Romney and the Confederacy and slavery. I wonder how all the Yankees down here in Florida and elsewhere would react to Sullivan’s implication?
Well, they’re Jewish anyway, Andy, what could they think that could possibly matter?
I wonder how all the Yankees down here in Florida and elsewhere would react to Sullivan’s implication?
They’ll agree with it. The one thing New Yorkers & New Jersians in particular love most about moving to Florida is complaining about every single thing they can think of, from how nasty the hick natives are to the weather to the mosquitoes. (Obvious question: Then why did they move here? Answer: Because it isn’t as bad as New York or New Jersey. So naturally they want to turn the state into New York and New Jersey.)
Years ago, back when we still had a substantial population of native Floridians, the most popular bumper stickers down here were all variants of “I don’t give a damn how you did it up north.”
The two worst things to happen to Florida were the invention of air conditioning and WWII. The two together led to an invasion of damned Yankees, and the bitching hasn’t stopped since the first one got off the train.
In Natchez, it’s the Californians. “Why can’t you be more like San Diego or L.A.?”
Don’t listen to a thing I say. My exasperometer exploded last week.
Tell ’em it’s because of the mosquitoes and gators.
Nothi n’ about the darkies, I guess?
“Look away, look away, look away down South, in Dixie…”
Look at our friend and host, Mr. Schuler. He comes from the state of The Great Compromise, and what’s that ever brought him but heartache and grief?
In the immortal words of Robert E. Le….
Excuse me guys, I have to go take my meds now. Maybe later.
I bet them Californians don’t pay the Negro folk no mind – they’re just happy to get away from the Mexicans. Anyway, it’s so very NOT SWPL to actually notice minorities in anything other than the context of differentiating themselves from non-SWPL whites. If you don’t bring it up, they won’t bring it up. If you really want to mess with ’em then tell ’em that the reason Natchez can’t be like CA is because you’ve got too many black people and not enough Mexicans. Just make certain now of the brain gets on your shoes when their heads explode! And if you REALLY want to fuck with ’em, get a black person to tell ’em that! I’m laughing just thinking about it! I’d bet just about every Southern, black or white, would laugh at that, too.
They’re just not gonna get why Natchez isn’t like California. Everyone that comes to the South with non-Southern roots wonders why it isn’t like the place they came from. I don’t know what’s wrong with ’em that they can’t understand it.
Just make certain NONE of the brain gets on your shoes ….
You know, one of these days I should post on something that not too many people realize: in nearly every Southern city of any size there was an antebellum Jewish population. Involved in the cotton trade is my understanding.
I’ve got a friend who’s from Holly Springs, Mississippi. She’s about as Jewish as you can be with an old-fashioned Mississippi accent and Southern belle manners.
B’nai Israel, Natchez.
I guess it’s open for visitors. I should go there.
There are BIG churches in Natchez. The Methodist and the Presyterian are in the grand clssical style, too. The Basilica is lovely, too, if full of suffering.
Natchez is a grand place to look at.
Vidalia, not so much.
They ain’t a decent rag to wear in Natchez since Ullman’s closed.
Have to shop out of town or online.
Florida has a Jewish senator back in the antebellum days, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not: David Levy Yulee, first Jewish US Senator, later served in the Confederate Congress.
In Louisiana, theres Judah P. Benjamin.
Look at the Louisiana state flag, 1861.
Now, I know I’ve seen that symbol on Jewish institutions, too. Even if it’s considered a Catholic symbol, specifically of the Rosminian order.
If you want to discuss Sullivan’s relevancy, do so. If you want to discuss factual assertions, then do that. I have linked to a map of the CSA below. Kentucky was never officially part of the CSA (yes I know that history fairly and am willing to debate the point). When you confine the map to the South, a GOP win would look like the CSA. AS I said above, I dont think that is especially insightful.
@Dave- Judah Benjamin held multiple positions in the CSA cabinet.
“Obvious question: Then why did they move here? Answer: Because it isn’t as bad as New York or New Jersey. ”
It’s the cold. I still like nippy weather, but I have to admit shoveling snow isnt much fun anymore. On complaining, there certainly is a lot to complain about in Florida, just like every other state I have lived in. Out of everything, I hated the driving the most. The old people doing 30 on the highways. The transplanted New Yorkers cutting you off and giving you the finger. The locals who grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard thinking it was a documentary trying to run you off the road for some perceived slight. Nice folks once out of their cars. Good food. Great sports. Bad driving.
@Dave, I’m surprised you didn’t go with the paradox that is West Virginia, far more likely to vote for Romney than Virginia. Perhaps after the election they will vote to rejoin Virginia.
Indiana was settled from the border south like other Ohio River valley areas, sharing many cultural and political affinities. A lot of Scots-Irish. But you can do that shared history a disservice if you disregard the high contributions made by Indiana for the Union cause. As Webb’s book says, Born Fighting.
Indianapolis posibly has more military commemorations of the Union than other place in the North, barring obvious battlefields like Gettysburg.
The locals who grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard thinking it was a documentary trying to run you off the road for some perceived slight.
You know, it’s a little tiring hearing about the Scots-Irish all the time. A lot of people from the South have exactly zero ties to those folks. German, English and Scottish blood here, for example. The Scottish blood comes directly from Scotland from my father’s maternal grandparents. Jeez, since Webb wrote his book you’d think the Scots-Irish were the only white people that ever lived south of the Mason-Dixon….
Ima have to break down and buy one of these DNA scans. I’m curiouser and curiouser.
But last I checked, one that did both maternal and paternal lines ran about $600.
Check out 23andme.com on that to see if it meets your needs. It’s substantially cheaper than that.
Thank you, sir. That looks doable.
And if they all voted Democrat we could say the same thing. It is a piss poor attempt to try and play the race card.
Icepick is right. Don’t defend the guy steve, just makes you look dumb.